Why You Should Get Involved win Podcasting 2.0

Announcer [00:00:03]:
This is the future of podcasting, where we ponder what awaits the podcasters of today. From the school of podcasting, here's Dave Jackson. And from the audacity to podcast, here's Daniel j Lewis.

Dave Jackson [00:00:18]:
Daniel, future of podcasting episode 38, podcasting 2.0. What's in it for me? Or why should any podcaster wanna be involved in podcasting 2.0? We had somebody ask that question on a, a live call last weekend. I thought that's a good question for this episode.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:00:40]:
It is just a great question overall, and it's something that we need to constantly think about. Even those of us who are actively in podcasting 2.0 need to be constantly thinking about this question. What's in it for me? Why should anyone care about this? And this is a big reason that James Cridland and I partnered together to launch podcasting2.org, or you could say podcasting2.org, if you want. I know that the point and the dot, there's a little bit of a British difference there, but just I say dot org and it's podcasting to point o. So I know I'm not consistent there. Well, I'm consistent with my standards as an American, but not consistent in how to pronounce the name in the URL. That aside, we put this site together and we're still maintaining it to try to answer this question for everyone. So that instead of telling people, oh, yeah, you gotta go look at the gut GitHub.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:01:34]:
No. No. Do not look at the GitHub. That is the gut hub. That's not where you wanna go. Some people feel like that's where this stuff gets digested on the gut hub. You don't wanna go over there. It's just they won't understand it.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:01:46]:
And that's true. You have to really dig around to find information in the GitHub repository. And even just those words, like the repository, oh, that just sounds so scary. And something like saying, well, sending them over to Mastodon on podcast index dot social, that also that's not really informational. That's where a conversation is happening. So it's not like you can just jump in and suddenly know what it's about. And podcastindex.org doesn't really talk much about what podcasting 2.0 is doing. It's really focused on the directory.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:02:20]:
So that's why James and I have started podcasting2.org to really communicate what is podcasting 2.0. And this is a question that we need to be equipped to answer. So to directly address that, first, I'll bounce it back to you, Dave. How would you or how did you answer that question yourself?

Dave Jackson [00:02:43]:
Well, for me, the the thing that caught my attention, which catches most people's attention, is, like, wait a minute. I can get paid to do this? So as soon as they hear about they don't know what a streaming Satoshi is, but when they hear that you can get paid, I think that gets people's attention. And then when you find out what's involved, that's when they might lose their attention. I know when we went through a couple of episodes ago and talked about going live, the live streaming part, you know, the lit tag and all that, I was like, okay. And I've had other people say, it's really not as hard as it sounds, but it sounds pretty you know, you gotta get this server and do this and update the the tags. And if your host isn't set up to do that, so I think some people hear about it, and especially bitcoin is almost a political word at this point. If you say bitcoin, there are some people that are like, and they get offended, and then other people are like, what? It's cool. It's it's what's nothing wrong with it.

Dave Jackson [00:03:38]:
So I think that's, I usually say, well, it's I I use my analogy. I say in the fifties, if you bought a car, you had 4 tires, a steering wheel, a brake, and a gas. That was pretty much it. Then somebody added a radio, and then they added power steering, and air conditioning, and, you know, better seats, etcetera, and they just kept making it better. And I'm like, so in the same way that podcasting came out, you got your RSS feed, and it had some basic features of a title, you know, a link to your MP 3 file, and some artwork, but now we're adding things like transcripts. And I can't wait to see Podroll be more adopted. I think Podroll has a huge amount of potential to where an actual podcaster can say, these are the shows I recommend that I listen to. Because then, I know I've heard Dave talk about making charts from that, and I'm like, that would be very cool because it's a 100% human curated.

Dave Jackson [00:04:33]:
So, but I I think the one that catches most people's attention, at least that's what I started with, was the whole streaming Satoshi. Because, a, I didn't know a thing about Bitcoin. We have the memes to prove it many times. And, so I wanted to get involved with that, and then, I just to me, I love podcasting, and the more we can make it better for the listener, well, let's do that too while we're at it. What's your if somebody asked you that question, what's your standard pull my string kinda answer?

Daniel J. Lewis [00:05:03]:
I'm probably going to end up quoting from my own copy on podcasting2.org here. But I see podcasting 2.0 as improving podcasting for everyone, for the podcasters, for the audiences, for the developers, and even for advertisers. Now how each of these people benefit from these things depends on the specific features. But what I think we really need to focus on most as podcasters and talking with other podcasters about it is not only the benefit to the podcaster. Because, yeah, that's great. It's like IAB certified stats can be great for the podcaster. Does it matter to the audience? No. Not at all.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:05:44]:
No. But there are podcasting 2.0 features that do matter to the audience. So while talking to other podcasters, it's certainly great to talk about the features that benefit the podcasters. We should also help them catch the vision of the benefits that help the audiences and make the experience better. So, yes, while the streaming satoshis, streaming payments to your favorite podcast, that can be fun for the audience because it gives them another way of engaging. Many audience members might think, well, that's just another way for me to pay money. So yay. But there are so many other ways that can make it better for the audiences.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:06:25]:
At Podfest, I got to talk with a woman about podcasting 2.0 because she heard me mention it in a session as a question for someone else. And then she asked me, what is podcasting 2.0? And, basically, the same thing. Why should I care? So I picked 2 features and she lit up when I talked about these two features, both from the consumption side and the creator side. Those two features were cross app comments and live notifications. We've talked about both of these before. Cross app comments being able to comment in your podcast app of choice, and other people can comment in their podcast app of choice. And those comments are across the apps, the multiple apps. So you can have these conversations going back and forth across multiple apps.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:07:12]:
It's a single comment stream, but people can comment on it from multiple places. That's a fantastic way to get your audience involved because there's content right now that I watch. Actually, I I recently became a premium subscriber to one of these people who are these companies that put out a lot of content. And, now, as a premium sub subscriber let me say that again. And now as a premium subscriber, I don't get the ads on their content. But I realized by consuming their content through the paid portal, I don't get the comments. I I can't respond to the content that they see and share. And there was, one of their women hosts.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:07:53]:
I wanted to respond to something and and agree with something she said, and I couldn't. The only place I could do that was to then leave their portal and go somewhere else, which then that somewhere else has the ads. But I know I could've commented without watching the place where it had the ads. But the point is that cross app comments help solve that. Makes it so people can engage in the conversation around your content without leaving their app. The same thing with the live stuff. Live streaming, although that is really against what podcasting actually is, which is downloadable media through an RSS feed, live streaming can be a really fun way to engage your audience. It's challenging as you and I both know, Dave.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:08:39]:
But it can be a lot of fun because you get to see the audience engaging with each other. You get to engage directly with the audience in real time. There can be all kinds of fun things that you can do with live streaming. It's not so much of a growth potential, but but it is an engagement potential, and you can leverage engagement to grow. But I'd love to see more of these apps that show current live shows and allowed that to actually have something, kinda like the old days of Blab, where you could see here are all of the shows that are going live right now. And, in fact, some of the apps do that already. And that can be a great way for podcast discovery. So those two things, I think, are really exciting both for the podcasters and for the audiences because this app provides new opportunities for them to engage.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:09:27]:
But a lot of other stuff is also just making the podcast do cooler things inside the podcast app if you're interested in it, like the the chapters feature transcripts. Before podcasting 2.0, we didn't have transcripts except buried on a web page somewhere in a format that was not very readable and had a lot of misconceptions about it. Listen to my episode this very week from the Udacity of podcast to learn more about some good ways to use transcripts. But this is now in Apple Podcasts too. And transcripts aren't only for the hearing impaired. They're for good retention. They're for good understanding. They're for a lot of things that you can do with transcripts, especially being built into the podcast app.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:10:16]:
And a trans, feature like a transcript is totally audience focused. Although, some of the apps will use the transcripts for search, and that's cool. But we need to focus more on how does this benefit the audience. And I think there there are plenty of features that are going to directly benefit the audience, maybe even more so than the podcasters and the developers.

Dave Jackson [00:10:42]:
Yeah. I think we kinda overlook the developers that these guys, especially, you know, when we keep throwing new features at them, they keep implementing them. If we don't pay those people, I mean, we were around for was what was PowerPress? It was PodPress before it was PowerPress, and this was a WordPress plugin that was used by a ton of podcasters. And it was a WordPress plugin, and those guys are also unsung heroes. And in the lovely land of WordPress, where everybody's website is just a little different even though it's not supposed to be, that guy had to just be getting hammered. And the one day, he was just like, yeah. I'm done. I'll see you later.

Dave Jackson [00:11:25]:
Bye. And then WordPress kept updating and updating and updating to the point where it's gonna break break people's websites. So WordPress went in and made some changes, and then thankfully, Blueberry went over and kind of took ownership of it, and then turned it into PowerPress. But the the fact that we now have a way to pay app developers, because the the one I just I think it was Podcast Guru. I paid them $12 for the year, and I get it that people aren't used to paying for apps in the first place. Yeah. But a dollar a month, I'm like, how much of that is gonna get eaten up in fees? I was like, you boys should be charging more for that. So I I think, Pocket Cast is $50 a month.

Dave Jackson [00:12:07]:
I just paid for pie I've been buying a lot of apps this month, playing with stuff, but nonetheless 50 per month or per year? I think it's per year because Pocket Chapters kinda costly. And then, Podurama has some sort of lifetime deal going on right now. I think it's $50, which is great, but that's in the end, you know, 7 years from now, my $50 is is is not gonna be paying for it. It's all spent. So that that's something I'm I'm happy to see if there's a way to to, you know, give them a crumb at least. They were getting nothing, you know, so it'd be nice if they had something more than a crumb, but just the fact that there's we're we're not leaving them out. It's like, okay. The advertiser's gonna get this, the podcaster's gonna get this, like, hold on.

Dave Jackson [00:12:52]:
There's there's more people to this game, and that's where that's I guess that's another benefit is with splits and satoshis, you can kinda make sure everybody gets paid, and you get to pick how much they get paid. So that's beautiful.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:13:04]:
Yeah. And people get paid along the way, which is great because then your money is going to people actually building the tools and helping you connect with your audience, not simply the company that's taking the payment for you like it would be with traditional payment systems. One of the things that can be a little frustrating, I think, in podcasting 2.0 is sometimes there are certain features that I'd love to see that would benefit solely the chapters. But that's the problem is developers just wouldn't care about it. The audience certainly wouldn't care. For example, one of the things that came up is the idea of being able to better track your listenership in the app. Like, how much of an episode they listen to. Not tracking the actual listener, but tracking the playback information from it so that you could see in the supported apps, did they listen to all of the episode or, like, part of the episode, that kind of thing.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:14:01]:
So that it's not simply a download, but now you can track. I got this many listens in this app because it's actually reported as a listen. That kind of thing would be wonderful for the podcasters, especially if more apps could support this. And Sam, Sethi, and I are going to have a conversation about this very soon on the future of podcasting to talk about this technology that could make it possible and many other cool things. But the problem is that in this specific application of the technology, it only benefits the podcaster. The audience doesn't really care that you know that they JSON to 94% of your episode. The developers, like, one of the developers and I don't want to throw the developer under the bus, so I won't name them. But they said, no.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:14:50]:
I'm not doing anything whatsoever that tracks my users in any way. Like, even if we built in all of these privacy protections and everything, which that's what I'm thinking is I want a way that we can get these stats that podcasters and even advertisers want, but in a way that protects the privacy completely of the audience. None of this demographic tracking stuff, which I know advertisers want that, and there could be a way to let audiences opt into that. But, again, that's the thing that only benefits the podcaster and the advertisers. So trying to sell the developers on that, that's difficult.

Dave Jackson [00:15:29]:
Yeah. That's

Daniel J. Lewis [00:15:30]:
And and that can be frustrating.

Dave Jackson [00:15:32]:
Yeah. It's the whole advertising thing is is going to be interesting. I know there is a new I think it's 2.2 version of IEB certified stats that, has a few more things that they're kind of peeking at to make sure that the, what we call a download, is is as accurate as we can, you know, predict at this point. Another thing behind the scenes is podping, which of course, the bonus of that, because as someone who works in support, hands down, the number one question we get, why isn't my episode showing an apple? I mean, it's not a contest. It's just here's your, you know, here's your crown, you win the most asked question, and it's really usually not that bad that it's, you know, been maybe 30 minutes, maybe 45 in some cases. And, you know, Apple just hasn't updated yet to show it in their app. It's in their feed. It just Apple hasn't showed up.

Dave Jackson [00:16:28]:
And often, it'll be in Spotify, and I'll be like, look. See? It's in Spotify. So in this case, Libsyn is working. Apple just needs to catch up. Where pod ping is really reduces that that time that it takes for the episode to show up in different apps. So that's another bonus for the listener and also for the support team, because they don't have to answer the question, why isn't my show showing up in the apps? It's like, no. It's already there. Just just give it another, I don't know, 20 seconds.

Dave Jackson [00:16:55]:
So

Daniel J. Lewis [00:16:56]:
And I would say that probably of all of the podcasting 2.0 features, maybe with the exception of streaming satoshis because of how energy efficient Bitcoin actually is compared to traditional fiat currency. I think Podbean could be the most environmentally friendly feature of podcasting ever. Because while there are systems right now that can work and can be fast, and for years, we've had the thing where the podcast apps would go and check for new episodes every hour or so. That takes bandwidth. That that takes energy from the battery of your mobile device. That takes the bandwidth through the network. That takes the bandwidth from the server hosting the RSS feed, which sometimes that bandwidth on the RSS feed could be even more than the media files themselves. That's how big of a difference it can actually make.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:17:51]:
Consider, for example, if you have a 1 megabyte RSS feed, which is kind of on the large side but it's not unreasonable, But only 1 megabyte, you're thinking. No. That's not bad. Well, imagine if that's being downloaded every hour of every day of every week, every month, every year, and it's being downloaded hourly by a 1000 people. That's a 1000 megabytes per hour. So you're talking terabytes of data just to see if there's a new episode. Not downloading it. Just checking.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:18:29]:
That's a huge waste. That all that energy is just being wasted. Yes. These systems can be optimized for efficiency to find stuff chapters, but still, like, it's a broken system. And so here comes Podpane, where it's so efficient. It can run on, basically, the processing power of your Apple Watch. That's how efficient it is. And it then for the the audience, what do you see as the benefit for the audience, Dave?

Dave Jackson [00:18:59]:
Well, I would just think the fact that they don't have to wait for an episode the minute it's it's out and that whole 9 yards. So that's that's the beautiful thing of that, especially, not that this ever happens, but if you make a mistake and have to repost an episode, you'll see it, you know, minutes after the first one, and you've realized what you've done. So, yeah, that's, that's one I hadn't thought of, and I'm not sure how many, like, hosts are using Podping. I know Libsyn is not, but I know I think Blueberry is, Buzzsprout. I have to go out and and check. I I think Captivate is, I'd have to look, but that's something that I noticed in some of these apps that I've been playing with. They'll say, what do you wanna use as the source, Apple Podcasts or Podcast Index? So that's always kind of interesting because in theory, you should be in both. In fact, I heard an old episode, and I I think this is still the case.

Dave Jackson [00:19:56]:
James said if you search for somebody's show on Pod News, if they're not in the index, they will be added. I was like, well, that's kind of a fun little trick. So because there have been shows that I've looked for, and they're not there. And I'm like, oh, do I have to go in and switch the tab? So I'll just go out to pod news and search for the show, give it, you know, 10, 15 minutes, and it'll be in the index. And I'm like, good to go. Problem solved.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:20:19]:
Yeah. Just to illustrate some actual practical difference here. I have podcastindustryinsights.com. I've built this engine to go and find all the podcasts in Apple Podcasts to be able track when new podcasts are added, and what's the status of old podcasts and such. Running that system requires a dozen servers. Running, processing this, all the bandwidth for it, looking for stuff, pulling it in, processing it, all of that stuff. All of those servers could be replaced by a single tiny little app to work with Podbean. If every podcast out there used Podbean, that is.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:20:58]:
So that would be a perfect world if every podcast used Podbean. Unfortunately, it doesn't exist like that. But that's the scale we're talking about here. Even just my little side project could be drastically reduced in my cost, the bandwidth, the server resources, the environmental impact, if you're concerned about that, all of these things with such a little simple, super fast, super optimized thing.

Dave Jackson [00:21:26]:
That kind of benefits everyone, but it's not a kind of a beat you over the head kind of feature, but it is definitely handy. And it's one of those it really that's the beautiful thing of a great well designed feature is it works behind the scenes, you don't have to do anything, and it just makes things better.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:21:43]:
Yeah. And I think there are opportunities for the in front of the scenes kind of things, the spotlight features that although we often say things like, well, my phone is in my pocket or in a drawer somewhere while I'm listening to my podcast, so I can't really interact with the screen. Maybe that's though not a matter of ability, but of interest. What if we make that experience in the app while you're listening? What if we make that better? What if we make it so much better that the audience wants to have their phone with them. Not in a dangerous way, like, while they're driving, but in a way that makes it easier for them to get what they want from the podcast. Like, one of the proposals that I've had for a while is enhancing the chapters. And I am now using this term that Dovidos from RSS Blue came up with calling them super chapters. Right now, podcasting 2.0 chapters are just a little bit better than legacy chapters.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:22:46]:
There are certainly things we can do that we couldn't do before, but it's just a little bit better. I think there are all kinds of potentials to make chapters even better to the point that your audience would be relying on those chapters to get the quick notes from your podcast or see the images that you're talking about or or see an animated GIF that you've shared in there or anything else like that, different ways to engage with them. Even stuff like polls or surveys right there inside the app may be built into a chapter in a special way. So you could get that engagement from your audience. Your audience could have fun with that too in all kinds of fun ways that makes them want to engage with the podcast app more. Developers would love that. Podcasters would love getting engagement from their audience. And if we do it well, then the audience will want this stuff too.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:23:43]:
It's like, no one knew they wanted an iPhone before the iPhone was made. Then it comes out, and then it starts showing off all of these features. We remember, we didn't have installable apps when the iPhone first came out. I hated the iPhone, actually, when it first came out. And I refused to get one. Now, I'm a big fan of the iPhone. Now, we can do so much more with it. Now, we want so much more.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:24:08]:
We demand so much more from an experience that a couple of decades ago, we didn't even know we wanted yet.

Dave Jackson [00:24:15]:
Yeah. I

Daniel J. Lewis [00:24:17]:
feel like that's what podcasting 2.0 is. It's providing a lot of these things, laying the framework, the foundation for us to build all of these other engagements on that the audience doesn't know they want yet. But when they get it, I think they're going to get hooked and love it in constructive ways, not hooked in a bad way.

Dave Jackson [00:24:38]:
Well, the other thing I think it can do is depending, I guess, on your audience, it can kinda set you apart as, look, I am a cutting edge podcast. You know, I am, just by saying, hey. This show is podcasting 2.0 compliant. If you'd like to, you know, stream satoshis or see more about this, go to podcasting2.org, and it just makes them sound because I've heard people say that sometimes having an advertiser makes them sound more legit. Like, why this must be a real show because somebody's paying them to sponsor it. So by occasionally mentioning this podcasting is 2.0 compliant, if you wanna skip to the next section, simply click the chapter button in your app. If your app doesn't have a chapter option, you know, go to modern podcastapps.com or one of the other 50 app URLs that we have going right now, And I think that can position yourself as, look. I'm I'm on the latest, greatest stuff.

Dave Jackson [00:25:36]:
I'm I'm one of the cool kids, man. I'm playing with all the good toys.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:25:41]:
Yeah. It reminds me I I can't quite remember the verbiage, but some kind of commercial that was, like, ask your provider if they're such and such. And it, like, it made you want to care about the certain certification or or degree or or something like that. And that's kind of like what you're saying. It's a badge of honor. I I remember the old days of the web when we had, you know, this site is certified HTML 4 or CSS 2, baby, and and stuff like that. And we'd show off these badges to show that we were compliant with these standards. And I don't really know why that ever became a thing, except to maybe show off that, hey, we're serious.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:26:25]:
Yeah. Our side is up to modern standards. Now people don't show off those badges anymore because we don't need to. We've moved beyond those standards. And maybe that could be the same thing in podcasting. Maybe we should start putting in our podcast cover, like podcasting 2.0, somewhere like a badge or something in our cover art or on our websites that could be interesting. But it it does become something that, yeah, sparks people's curiosity and can be a bit of a, a a thing a way to stick it to the man and say, hey, we're up with the modern technology. Is your favorite podcast podcasting 2.0?

Dave Jackson [00:27:07]:
That's it. Well, I remember but this really dates myself. When MTV first came on, it wasn't in stereo. You had to get a special thing that you could plug into your radio to then listen through your stereo? Because I I'd I'd have to go to YouTube, but I remember it was like you know? And then eventually, you know, when TV went stereo, it was like a big deal. But I remember when it first came out, you had to go get you know? So if you were, like, really into music, you're like, hey. If you wanna listen to it in stereo, you can come over to my house because, you know, I'm really into music. So, but that's so weird to think about that, you know, TV wasn't in stereo then, but it's true. I was there.

Dave Jackson [00:27:49]:
I've got the t shirt. And, of course, all this stuff they were talking about, you can find it. Daniel, what's the website?

Daniel J. Lewis [00:27:57]:
Podcasting2.org. Now here's the call to action for you listening. If there's something on the site that doesn't make sense, if there's a guide that you would like to see, please contribute. The site is actually open source. So our full code that runs the site is available. Here's the scary thing. It is on, I'm gonna start calling it GutHub now, but it is on GitHub, and you can go over there and directly contribute. You can clone it.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:28:25]:
You can issue a poll request if you want to, or just reach out. And you can say, hey, this spot, this doesn't make sense, or here's a suggestion for how to make this clear. The reason we made this site is to be that home for podcasting 2.0 so people could understand it better, and you can help us explain it better too. So that could be as simple as improving a single sentence or a paragraph or writing a whole guide for us. That's something I want this site to contain is individual guides for how to use this feature. Like, I made a guide for how to use a transcript and take advantage of the transcript tag. Or it could be how to use Podpane, how to do this, how to add chapters, cross app comments, or boostograms, or anything like that. A great guide that is written in the way that your mom could understand.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:29:19]:
And I know some people hate it when we say, well, let's make it simple. But it needs to be simple. We need to explain these things well. Remove the jargon as much as possible, and make it so that the average podcaster think of it this way. Think of the podcaster who started on Anchor. Convince them why podcasting 2.0 should matter and why they should leave Spotify for podcasters to switch over to something that supports podcasting 2.0. That doesn't mean make it dumb Yeah. Or anything like that.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:29:51]:
It's make it simple, Easy to understand. Something that podcasters can get excited about. So we'd love your help with that. Go to podcasting2.org. Check it out. If you're GitHub familiar, you can directly issue poll requests there, and James and I can look at them, or just reach out to us and suggest your improvements.

Dave Jackson [00:30:13]:
Well, I'm not sure if this applies to this show or to to just me, because both Daniel and I have splits in our feed. But I wanna say congratulations to, Brian Entsminger, who is now, at least on in my dashboard, he's the top contributor going past Sam Sethi, Dave Jones, and Adam Curry. And what's interesting is he's also then number 5 because we have Brian at Top Tier Audio. So he is number 1 and number 5. He's like the Beatles back in the sixties. He's just, you know, tearing up the charts here. So, Brian, thank you so much for, all the streams. And, yeah.

Dave Jackson [00:30:50]:
I guess you were on his show?

Daniel J. Lewis [00:30:52]:
Yeah. He has Podcast Editor's Mastermind, which is podcast about podcasting for podcast editors, specifically. And he had me, along with Jennifer Longworth, as a guest on his show to talk about podcasting 2.0, but from a different perspective, really talking about what do podcast producers who make podcasts for other people and edit for other chapters. What do the editors need to know about podcasting 2.0 that can help their clients? It's a really challenging conversation. I thought it was a really good conversation to have. So this whole thing about what is the benefit of podcasting 2.0 and why we should carry and stuff. Also, if you're in the podcast editing game, go listen to that episode from Podcast Chapters Mastermind. We'll have the link in the notes for this episode because that was a good conversation, I thought.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:31:41]:
There were some things where I I don't know if I had a really good answer, but certainly a good conversation, some things to think about. And thanks, Brian, for the contribution and also for having me on the show.

Dave Jackson [00:31:52]:
Was the discussion that editors should be cut into the split?

Daniel J. Lewis [00:31:57]:
You know, that didn't come up.

Dave Jackson [00:31:59]:
Because

Daniel J. Lewis [00:31:59]:
that's a good point.

Dave Jackson [00:32:00]:
Like, that's interesting because you kinda get paid to make the audio, but if somebody's like, I can't afford you, you go, like, oh, just give me, you know, 20% or some some decent sized piece of the pie until you get up and going. That would be an interesting way to get get paid. But again, that we would probably require I would do that on any Bitcoin show. Let's go there.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:32:22]:
Oh, yeah.

Dave Jackson [00:32:23]:
But if it's on a, you know, I don't know, another movie review podcast, maybe not. So

Daniel J. Lewis [00:32:29]:
The knitting podcast for grandma.

Dave Jackson [00:32:31]:
Yeah.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:32:31]:
Yeah.

Dave Jackson [00:32:31]:
That's not gonna you're not gonna make any Bitcoin on that one, so excellent. Well, I think that's enough for episode 38. We'll put this one in the can. So thanks so much for listening to the future of podcasting. If you know somebody else that would enjoy this show, maybe they're a little confused on it, feel free to share that with them or just tell them to go to future of podcasting.net.

Daniel J. Lewis [00:32:54]:
Keep boosting and keep podcasting 2.0.