Are Podcasts Really on YouTube?

00:00 Dave Jackson Oh sure, there have been many announcements, but are podcasts really on YouTube? This is the future of podcasting, where we ponder what awaits the podcasters of today. From the school of podcasting, here's Dave Jackson, and from the audacity to podcast,

00:19 Daniel J. Lewis here's Daniel J. Lewis. Daniel, episode 15 of the future of podcasting, are you aware that we are not on video right now and yet we're still a podcast? You mean I got myself all dolled up for nothing?

00:35 Dave Jackson That is a nice tux. It's brilliant. And I thought that's one of the things we could kind of riff on a little today. I'm going to say, I meet a lot of new podcasters and I'm somewhere between 20 and 30 percent. It's a lot of people that I run into and it's something along the lines of they feel that a podcast is mandatory that you do video. And I actually put out a thing in a couple different Facebook groups and I was like, look, I'm not anti-video, I said, but I'm trying to find patient zero. Who is the person? Because it's such a passionate thing that again, people think it's mandatory. It's not like, hey, you should be on YouTube or you should… It's like, no, no, you have to be on video. And I was like, well, who's been saying this? Because usually in a case like that, you follow the money. Right? Like, who would benefit from everybody doing video? And I was like, hmm, maybe YouTube? I don't know. That could, you know, more videos to run ads on. I know you've done an episode on people that kind of again are thinking they, I have to have video.

01:51 Daniel J. Lewis Yeah. I think part of it is you look at, well, for one thing, when podcasting first started, here's a funny story. So when podcasting first started and then podcast came to iTunes in 2005 with iTunes 4.9, I was at a full-time job at that point. And we had a blazing fast T1 connection that I think was one or three megabits per second. Sounds so painfully slow these days. But I subscribed to a whole bunch of video podcasts back then, because this was before YouTube podcast predate YouTube. Some people don't realize that. But so I got all of these video podcasts and there was something about iTunes that the way that we're downloaded the podcast would actually hog the entire network's bandwidth. So they had to implement a firewall so that during office hours, no, nothing from iTunes could be downloaded. No podcasts, no videos, no music, nothing. You could use iTunes with your own music, which is what all of us had at that point, but you couldn't download anything because it would just crash the network. That was back then. And video was so entertaining even back then, because, well, for one thing, I mean, the same thing like with podcasts where we were used to either watching something on TV or listening to something on the radio that usually fit into the same, maybe half a dozen different topics. You know, everything on the radio is relationships, money, sports, news, politics, maybe technology, maybe one or two other things on the radio. Same thing, basically on television. It's comedy, drama, these certain things. And they're trying to appeal to a mass audience. What attracted me to podcasting was I could find shows for exactly what I was interested in. It was the niche and I fell in love with the niche. And there were plenty of videos about those niches back then, too, because before YouTube, if you wanted to distribute a video show, a video podcast was the only way to do it. So then fast forward to today, where the video consumption landscape has drastically changed. YouTube is the dominant platform, but we also have all these other places for different styles of video like Instagram stories, Snapchat. Gosh, I haven't been on Snapchat in forever. TikTok is the big one these days, too. So yes, video has a definite place. And to my humiliation, I would say that even vertical video has a place these days because a lot of people consume video on only a vertical device. So vertical video does have a place, but it is very engaging and it can be entertaining on these platforms. But I think the consumption habits on these platforms are so drastically different than podcast consumption patterns. And some people I think don't recognize that difference. And so they start to think that, well, look, TikTok is huge because it's video of whatever people want to talk about. And you can follow people who talk about specific niches, you know, everything that is attractive about podcasts. And they're thinking, therefore, podcasts should be in video or therefore you need to also do video as well.

05:16 Dave Jackson I'm not so sure we should be making that leap. Yeah, I'm with you on that because when I go to TikTok, I expect to watch videos. I don't expect any audio to be over there. There are different platforms have different, you know, media. And so when I go to YouTube, I expect to see some sort of video. And when I go to Apple Podcasts, even though I could watch a video on Apple Podcasts, I don't watch any videos in a podcast app. I just go to YouTube because my brain says that's where I go to watch videos. So and they've got a great system where my favorite thing is save for later. I have a giant save for later list that I need every now and then I'll get on a treadmill. I'm like, oh, I know you can find it. It's later. Watch the save for later playlist. And so I'm just kind of trained that way to expect videos on YouTube and audios is where I consume podcasts. And that's where I always sound like an old curmudgeon. But for me, the biggest thing I hated about YouTube calling things a podcast when technically it's not is it's just confusing. I mean, you and I work as podcasters. We work with spoken media. And when you take language, which is my tool to deliver my craft and make it confusing, you've made my job harder. So it's every time we see any kind of survey that always gets kind of weird if YouTube gets into the mix because they'll call it a podcast. And you're like, there's always that that certain section in the back of room that goes

06:55 Daniel J. Lewis it's not really a podcast. And this is all on the heels of the day that we're recording this. YouTube announced that they're rolling out quote podcasts. Well, they didn't put the quotation marks. I do. We are. They're rolling out quote podcasts unquote to YouTube music. So this isn't the only the YouTube podcast experience like youtube.com slash podcast, I believe is that URL. This is on YouTube music. Same content, same way to get in there as far as I can tell, but now in a different consumption place. I don't have it in my YouTube music. You have it in yours, Dave.

07:35 Dave Jackson What is your impression like from the audience perspective of it? Well, here's the thing where I kind of go, let's see who would benefit from saying video is the next big thing. And I'm like, well, YouTube, because I've had, I don't even know what the it was YouTube bread and now it's YouTube premium, I think is what they call it. Basically it's the, the tax of not having ads thrown at you every 10 seconds. And so when I heard that it was coming to YouTube music for the first time in, I've probably had YouTube premium for years. And apparently I had the ability to not have ads in YouTube music this whole time. I've never launched YouTube music. So I've looked at it now four times. And so when I open it up, even though it says music at the top, cause again, that's the name of the app. One of the buttons I have podcast, relax, energize, workout, commute, focus, all these different types of playlists. And when I click on podcasts, as you might imagine, it's in some cases, well, the one is interesting because I'm on YouTube music. And one of the videos that it's recommending is a video that I started to watch on YouTube, which I guess makes sense in a way. Is that a video that's claiming to be a podcast? No, that's what, that's why I'm kind of scratching my head. It's an actual video.

09:01 Daniel J. Lewis And I'm like, well, I mean, so by claiming like in YouTube, all it takes to turn your YouTube channel into a podcast is you have to have a playlist and it has all of your quote episodes or actual episodes. No quotation marks around that one. And then you mark that here come the quotation marks. You mark that playlist inside your channel as a quote podcast unquote. And that's what then makes it become a podcast in their terms. So I'm wondering, I'm not sure if you could actually see that unless you like browsed back to their channel to see is this video in a podcast playlist, because even a single video can be in multiple playlists. So you'd almost have to go to their channel to see, do they have a channel or a playlist? But I don't think you could even just by looking at a playlist know, is this a podcast playlist like in the YouTube backend? Was it tagged as a podcast or not?

09:59 Dave Jackson Yeah, I don't see it. I'm actually looking at one of my shows. Now, let me check, because when I go to my show and I click on an episode, there's one of those three little dots and I see a button that says go to podcast. Whereas if I go to let's go back to the video I just had a minute ago, it looks different. No, I do have a go to podcast.

10:20 Daniel J. Lewis So that makes me think it's inside a playlist that is tagged as a podcast.

10:26 Dave Jackson Right. Because at this point, why wouldn't you tag it as a podcast if it's going to get me more exposure? Every I know I went into every playlist I had and I felt like Oprah. I'm like, you're you're a podcast. You're a podcast.

10:37 Daniel J. Lewis Everyone's a podcast. Well, you know, standing on a street corner and nailing a screw into your forehead will get you more exposure.

10:45 Dave Jackson That doesn't mean you should do it. That's right. Exactly. So I went into my stats just briefly looked. And I didn't see there is a in their stats, you can see how people are finding it in in the, I don't know, 10 minutes I spent looking at it. I didn't see any giant bump in my playlist or anything like that.

11:05 Daniel J. Lewis In fact, it was really kind of depressing looking at my YouTube stats. Now, is this for actual videos like your Ask the Podcast Coach or what you post through the School of Podcasting channel? Or is this what I call fake videos where it's only audio?

11:20 Dave Jackson These are legit, like made for YouTube, you know, or the Ask the Podcast Coach, which just a live stream. And so I was like, OK, I'm in YouTube music now, on the other hand, to to be devil's advocate. Right. I do a podcast about podcasting. It's not like I'm talking about how to make money or, you know, whatever, 401Ks, et cetera. I'm talking about how to grow your podcast. So I will give them that not the most popular topic on the planet. But I didn't see any really any kind of bump. I need to watch this now as time goes on to see if this picks up. But it's. You know, I get it, if you think about it for the past, I don't know, month and a half, we've all been saying I've said YouTube music more in the past month than I have in the past decade. Yeah. So that's one of those where I'm like, this could be and they have, you know, kind of done this in the past where they'll make things and then pull it away. And, you know, so I just. On one hand, again, anything that will grow people listening to podcast is always great. I'm I'm a little there's a part of me that goes, I really wish they would just steer them towards a real podcast app or somehow ingest RSS feeds or something. Become a real podcast app. Yeah. Yeah, that would be great. Or I don't know, make Google podcast native on all Android phones. You know, to dream the impossible.

12:49 Daniel J. Lewis So so I first I'll get the negative out of the way. I hate that YouTube is calling this podcasting and podcast, and I hate that people are calling it podcast. There was a survey done by Edison Research where they their conclusion was in a wording similar to this that I forget the exact statistics, but it was a huge majority of people prefer to watch podcasts than listen to podcasts. Now, there is a huge fallacy that I see in that is they asked the wrong question, because if you look at the other data in that same survey, you see that most of the people who responded said that they consume podcasts on YouTube and what's on YouTube, regardless of whether it's audio or video, it's technically not a podcast because there's no RSS feed you can get from YouTube and you're not giving YouTube any RSS feed in order to get your episodes on there. So there's no RSS involved whatsoever on that. So technically it's not a podcast, but a lot of people will call what they see on YouTube. They now call it a podcast because these terms have mixed together in their mind from people talking about podcasts and shows and episodic content. And they think, well, I'm watching this show on YouTube. It's by some independent people and it's episodic. There's a new episode every day, every week, whatever. It's a podcast. So there's this changing of how the language is used. I know that happens for everything. I don't want it to happen for some things. So there is that happening. So when people say they watch a podcast on YouTube, they could very likely be talking about something they watch on YouTube. That's not actually available anywhere other than YouTube. Like for example, I used to watch a Rhett and Link with their good mythical morning show that used to be a daily show. I don't know where its frequency is now. I don't watch it anymore, but people might call that a podcast, but the only place that existed on the internet was on YouTube. So if YouTube ever kicked them off, then they would lose their connection with their entire audience. It was not a podcast, but probably lots of people called it a podcast. So when people say, I prefer to watch podcasts instead of listen to podcasts, I think they're really saying, since I use YouTube, I prefer to watch video instead of listen to video, which I think makes a lot of sense. If you've got a video, you want to watch it and you want it to be worth watching, not just listen to video. I mean, who really gets a movie only to listen to a good movie. I know some people prefer just some background, something so they can focus on something else. But I mean, like, you know, if you want to see the latest, whatever movie out there, Marvel, Lord of the Rings, Star Wars, whatever. Do you really want to only listen to it? No, you want to watch it because it has value in the visuals. With a podcast, most podcast content is spoken content. Some shows and some video podcasts, some shows on YouTube, whatever, do have legitimate reasons to show you something. And I think that people on a video platform

16:14 Dave Jackson would even rather see a talking head than a static image. Right. Yeah, it's and I always say, you know, if if you don't need a visual because you're just a talking head, I get it. You know, YouTube is a very popular search engine, so I get why people do that. But there's a part of me that goes, it also takes time to upload it to YouTube and everything else. You know, do you really need to be on YouTube? But I know in my travels, I'll hear people say, well, you can grow your podcast by starting a YouTube channel. And it's a kind of hard to get to see how many people, you know, unless you ask every subscriber, which you can't, you know, how did you find me? And they said, YouTube, you're really just growing an additional audience, which is fine. You're becoming a YouTuber. And that's the part I never get, because it used to be two years ago, you'd ask any 11 year old, what do you want to be when you grow up? And they'd say a YouTuber. Does this mean in the future they're going to say a podcaster and really mean a YouTuber?

17:18 Daniel J. Lewis So again, we're back to it's getting confusing. Yeah. So that confusion and my frustration with the labeling and such aside, I think there is a lot of great potential here for the last couple of years. I've been predicting each year that we're going to see podcasts come to another major platform. I was so excited when Facebook brought podcasts to Facebook and then which lasted longer CNN plus or Facebook podcasts or Quibi or, well, Blab, I guess actually outlasted all of them combined. But I was so disappointed when Facebook killed it because that had in my mind, they have the data. So maybe they were looking at certain things and seeing actual stuff. But in my mind, that was a fantastic place to bring podcasts. I think that bringing podcasts to YouTube is fantastic. They're just executing it poorly. However, again, putting the negative parts aside, this does have the potential to bring podcasting to the masses and to expose people to podcasts, even if just that curiosity of they open their app, whether that's the YouTube app or the YouTube music app, and they see, oh, podcasts. Hey, I've heard about podcasts. I want to check out some podcasts because my friend told me I should listen to podcasts and I never whatever he said about the purple icon. I don't know. I'm on an Android device. I don't have a purple icon. All my icons are different colors. So I have YouTube, but now there's podcasts. I think I'll check out something out. So I like that. I think that this is a great platform to bring podcasts to it. And I just wish it was being executed differently. And I feel like YouTube keeps letting us down. Like it feels like they're saying, hey, baby, I'm going to sweep you off your feet. You are not going to know what hits you because you are going to be so romanced by this new podcast feature we're bringing. And then we discover it's the, I bought you this cordless drill. How romantic. Some people consider that romantic. Okay. But that's what it feels like. It's like, oh, thank you. Yeah. All the lead in into all of this. And it's basically just a button on the site and a slightly different view. Now they have the potential to do so much more with this and do it so much better. I just wish that that's what they launched with. I would love to see an audio first experience that would let you upload your audio files to YouTube or even better, give YouTube your RSS feed. Hey, there's a novel idea in just the podcast RSS feed and let you then put your podcast on YouTube that way. Or even if you want to use YouTube as your podcast publishing platform to get a podcast valid RSS feed from it. I would love to see either of those things happening on the YouTube side. It's not, but it still could. So I'm, yes, I'm very critical about what they've done, but I'm still also very optimistic about what they could do.

20:42 Dave Jackson Yeah. It's one of those where you just want to get some other, you know, big shot smarty pants people in a room and go, here's something you may not be thinking about. Cause I have seen so many big companies do things when Amazon introduced transcripts to their podcasts. We're like, oh good, we've got that, that tag in podcasting. Oh no, they designed their own. You're like, oh, doesn't anybody over there know we have this already made? So it'd be nice to go, Hey, just so you guys know, here's another way you could do this. And I did look at the YouTube music app. They do have a library. So you kind of have a way to separate your shows into an area. But I, what I don't know, cause I never use this app, you know, do you put music in your library or is that just a podcast thing? It's, it's kind of odd. And it reminds me a little bit, I've noticed this with other podcast apps where you kind of go in and they have what's called a queue and you can see an episode and say, add this to up next or whatever they've called it. And it's not really a playlist. You kind of make the playlist manually and then you, it just goes to the next episode. So I'm not sure if, if that's how they're treating just podcasts or if that's also for, for music. If I,

21:56 Daniel J. Lewis Well, my hope there would be that they do manage it more like a queue. Like right now I go to YouTube quite frequently to watch videos and I go to my subscriptions page on YouTube where it is still called subscriptions and I will watch something here and there. I kind of pick and choose because some of the YouTube shows I watch, a very interesting thing here, a side philosophical thing is that what I subscribe to on YouTube, I pick and choose far more than I pick and choose with the podcast I listen to. Like the podcasts I follow, I'm very faithful unless I fall behind. So I am a listen to every single episode, unless the episode just really frustrates me listening to it or I fall way behind on YouTube, I pick and choose first. I don't, I'm not a watch everything I'm subscribed to. But anyway, on that subscription page, when you watch something, yes, you get a little tiny little red bar that indicates that you've watched it or how much of it you've watched, but it still is there in your subscriptions. What I could see them maybe doing, and maybe they actually are doing this with the library view, is managing it like a queue so that when you follow or subscribe to a show, the episodes show up there in the library and then when you listen to them, they disappear from the library like a podcast app would do.

23:16 Dave Jackson I did add some music to the library, so it is, it looks like it's a queue. So we'll see, I'm just going to have to, A, apparently make videos that people watch longer than 58 seconds and then check my stats to see, you know, at least are the numbers going up of how many people clicked on play or whatever. Because I know I have one playlist called Quick Podcast Tips, and I'll have to go in and see what is the first video of that playlist because it plays them in whatever order you have. And then, because I think right now it's an older video, which would be great we'll talk about this maybe on a future episode because in theory I should be able to go in and if for some reason I'm now getting plays that I weren't getting before, you might then connect the dot, okay this is from YouTube Music because it's just been sitting here for years and they've changed something and oh this has changed over here. So that'll be a follow-up in a future episode. But it's, I just, for me I'm with you. I have the same frustration just from a language communication thing that they've kind of hijacked this word and now in a Facebook group I said, is it annoying for people in Europe that they occasionally, depending on who they're talking to, have to say American football because football in the UK is soccer? And I said so in the future we're going to have to say oh it's a YouTube podcast because it's not really a podcast in the same way they go, ah that's not really soccer, we're gonna have to have this kind of disclaimer, oh it's you know asterisks, it's really a YouTube podcast. So it'll be, that's the part that I find

24:55 Daniel J. Lewis frustrating again it just kind of makes things messy and confusing. Well so YouTube being owned by Google, bringing podcasts to YouTube, I think is great overall for the whole industry. Yeah. And what other platform or have you ever thought of what other thing, platform, app, network, anything like that that you would love see support podcasts natively inside of that platform or app?

25:25 Dave Jackson That would be great. Well I know they've had, you know, they had CarPlay in cars and things like that. I don't know because remember when they had digital, did you ever hear about the digital radio thing where, oh yeah, that was a thing and you can still buy a digital radio and that's where you'll have whatever your local station is, like here it's 100.7 but there'd be like a 100.7 B and what was great about it is there was all sorts of music that I don't know whoever programmed it but it was actually better than the one that was on the the regular FM dial and there was no commercials. It was amazing and I was like oh I love digital radio and I had a car that picked it up but I'm trying to think of something where people listen to audio and really at this point most apps, whether it's Pandora or you know Spotify, all these kind of music apps, most of them are equipped now with a podcast. Can you think of any that you'd like to

26:23 Daniel J. Lewis see them add podcasts? Yeah so here's what I've been thinking where I'd love to see podcasts introduced and I mean in a native form where a podcast consumption experience is a pleasant one. It's not simply like you drop in a link to an mp3 file and it embeds a player, although that would be great. We don't have that in most places whereas if you drop in a YouTube link almost anywhere it gets embedded so you can watch the YouTube video in wherever that place is that was dropped. I would love to see podcasts come to Twitter, LinkedIn, I think they never should have left Facebook, I was excited about that potential but so Twitter and LinkedIn and Windows you know Windows is far more popular of an operating system than Mac but there is no native podcast app on Windows. Microsoft doesn't have a Microsoft podcast ever since they killed off the Zune. That was their podcast platform and then there was some sort of thing with Xbox at some point along the way but they don't really do that anymore so I would love to see some kind of Microsoft podcast platform app something like that so people on the Windows side can get a really nice designed for them podcast experience and I know there is iTunes on Windows and that is the only place that still surprisingly still is called iTunes frustratingly. I still think they are going to split iTunes into Apple podcasts on the Windows side at some point but the other thing I would love to see is Apple podcasts come to Android and I've been predicting that for years they finally have a financial incentive to do so because of subscriptions that they can receive payments from people on Android but then there's also the complication of how much of that has to go to Google versus how much does Apple get to keep and how much does the podcaster actually get to keep.

28:24 Dave Jackson It'd be great if Google took 30% just like Apple does.

28:28 Daniel J. Lewis Well and so what would Apple do? So if Google does have that kind of role and maybe that's why it's not happening because maybe Google is saying no we want 30% of their subscriptions coming through our platform and Apple is looking at that saying well that's our 30% so it's not financially feasible at all to bring Apple podcasts to Android but regardless I would like to see more of these highly popular apps available across all the same platforms under the same brand and for Apple podcasts you know it's iTunes on Windows that needs to change but there isn't anything for Android. Linux users also are very left out but they also are used to using much more geeky tools but even Linux is getting more popular because of people just not wanting to support the mega corporations and such with their operating systems of choice. So the social networks, Twitter and LinkedIn and Microsoft and something on Android and the crazy thing on Android is as we're talking about like native podcast app the Google podcast experience which I think could have been so good was never made prominently native. It's a technical thing that it is actually there but if you don't have the icon for it then it's practically not there.

29:52 Dave Jackson The other platform that I just realized it's it's on my TV and I didn't realize it because I use Fire TV for my to get basically all my other stuff on my TV is Amazon. That's what I've always surprised because the problem is your first time to Amazon music if somebody says you know here click here to listen to my podcast in Amazon when it goes to Amazon music they're going to get hit with a pop-up that says you can get three months of Amazon music for free for whatever blah blah blah and I'm like ugh not a great first impression but the thing I've always liked I thought it would be great and you could do this with Amazon you could do it with Apple in certain ways is to be able to be in one room listen to a podcast go into another room ask the woman in the tube from Amazon to continue playing and then maybe you're in another room you could well if you wanted to maybe you're going to do some cleaning or whatever you could continue to listen podcast on your TV and in theory pick up right where you left off I always love that feature I've been playing with pocket casts and they do that very well you know I'll be on my phone and then I'll fire up the pocket cast website and continue on there but I've always been amazed that for whatever reason Amazon didn't quite pick up like I thought they would know when you said you know there's no windows thing I was like I wonder if there's an Amazon music for you know the PC so when I looked it up I saw that you know customers who have Amazon music app installed on their own smart TV are able to listen to Amazon music and I'm going to chime in there that means podcasts you know and I was like well I've never thought of that of listening to podcasts on my TV it's not a normal thing but there are times when you know I've got a most people if you have a sound bar you've got a great sound system plugged into your your TV and I just know especially there's a report out now I've seen a couple that they're saying boomers are not continuing to grow when it comes to listening to podcasts and I was like that's weird because she doesn't work great but you can many times ask the woman in the tube to play a podcast and if your name isn't something like librarypreneur you know she'll she does an okay job of of doing it and what's great is she announces the name of the show and announces the episode and if you're in the middle of the episode she'll pick up right where you left off and so that's one platform I was always like oh when Amazon came on board I was like oh now we're talking and I don't know where they are and percentage wise but it's it's you know not where

32:30 Daniel J. Lewis I wanted it to be I'll go that route yeah and Amazon is even self-fragmented in this podcast sense they're like you can find a podcast on amazon.com where you go to buy toilet paper you can find a podcast there and it's oddly it's under books that's where podcasts are listed under the books category or you could also get there through the audible category of Amazon but that's basically still the books category and podcasts are also in audible proper yeah and audible is available in different regions and the podcasts are also available on amazon music and so it's it's this really weird thing like if you want to send people to your podcast on Amazon you have three different links that you could use three completely separate platforms and at least on the Amazon proper side the retail side that link is completely different depending on which region like Amazon Canada Amazon.ca for their website has a completely different ID code for your podcast than amazon.com does and that ID code neither of those are used on the other aspects of this Amazon property it'd be nice if they just all used the podcast GUID that we have in podcasting 2.0 and they could all make a simple link that just worked in all of these places or cross-app comments with these things this cross-app integration among their own platforms and it's frustrating that they don't but it's great that they do have podcasts in there anyway.

34:10 Dave Jackson Again it's just these big companies if they could just take a couple steps to just go a little further you know you've made it this far if you could just do this one thing and again that's where I think sometimes they're not talking to the right people or they're they haven't even thought of asking somebody in the industry hey we're thinking of doing this give us some input

34:30 Daniel J. Lewis on that so we're kind of missing out unfortunately. It feels often like it's just like hey let's just chuck mark that one okay we got it we're done we put a button on our site that says podcast we are

34:42 Dave Jackson now a podcast platform no. Ready for the quarterly report. Well how's our quarterly report doing? Well our quarterly report is we got a boost-o-gram from Kyron over at Mere Mortals gave us a row of ducks he said I noticed you guys calling boost-o-grams ads or at least making that comparison I don't think that's a helpful way of framing what they are they are part of the show and enhance it 99.9 of ads are external to the show and detract from it when explaining a value for value to a newbie I steer well clear of any comparison and in fact highlight how it avoids the problems of censorship conflicts of interest irrelevant targeting reputation harm etc etc etc

35:31 Daniel J. Lewis the list goes on so yeah we kind of used the some multiple terms interchangeably ads calls to action donation segments in our previous episode about baked-in ads but yeah I do agree that you really should not look at it as an ad and should not should not tell your audience it's an ad either

35:49 Dave Jackson because what do you do during the ads you leave you skip them well and how many ad breaks and I'm guilty of this start off with we'll be back right after this so we'll be back yes I'm leaving here you you sit here and listen to this I'm going to run away that's always fun the pod sage himself Dave Jones gave us a rush boost that simply said epic tease and I think that was about our episode

36:14 Daniel J. Lewis about cross uh cross app comments so yeah yeah we've got some interesting things by the way we're working on there looking at if we can merge some ideas together to possibly make this work a follow-up to that is quick follow-up is that I'm excited to see several people saying well yeah I guess that could work and yeah that would be easy to implement and it seems like this is already getting some positivity there are just a few small little kinks to work out like we're talking minor things versus trying to make a nail work for in a screw hole yeah which is what I felt like trying to do with activity pub before but we've got some good progress I think still some ways to

37:03 Dave Jackson go but I think we've got better momentum this time well and I think that's one of the things at least it sounds that way now you deal with us much more than I do but when I hear people talk about it it usually is somebody came up with an idea somebody else said hey what if we tried this and then somebody else said oh I know and it's it's it seems like there's a fair amount of collaboration or at least if it's not collaboration at least people willing to hear another point of view I don't think I you know that there are some people like no no way ever you know they'll hear it before they say that at least so is that we did get a lovely boost of one two three four five from ilovesushi says speaking of cross app comments I can't wait for cross app comments to become available they really love the idea so oh wait a minute we got one more from kyran he says another row of ducks no boostagrams outrageous he appreciates our effort in trying to push this forward especially Daniel talking about cross app comments when I first joined podcasting 2.0 a couple years ago cross app comments had me really fired up hope to one day see them alive and thriving so thanks kyran for that and only only I know I know show only in ok show uh gave us a hundred sets thanks for the podcasting 2.0 uh love so thanks for everybody for sending in the boostagrams Daniel is there any way to predict like if somebody said cross app comments sounds great what do you think it's going to happen is there that's just one of the things is that do you just pull out a dart and throw it at a dart board or is there any way to at this point to even

38:47 Daniel J. Lewis think about it in that kind of way I think we will have a system working within a month from now wow it was really nice that I got to be a guest on an episode of grow my podcast or grow my show with Deirdre Shen from cap show and at some point we're going to be talking more about AI and cap show will be part of that as well but that episode won't go out for seven more weeks so when she told me that and I asked ahead of time before we recorded it was nice to be able to talk about cross app comments in that episode and recognize that there's going to be a lot of time passing between now and when the episode is published so then I was able to say it could very likely be available by the time you're hearing this episode so I think yeah in a month two months at max probably before I mean already a couple developers has said you put the endpoints and you put the stuff in your feed to give us something to work with and we'll work on getting this into our app

39:47 Dave Jackson in the next month or two wow yeah I was thinking again I'm not a developer by any means I'm thinking we could have it by the end of the year that'd be great so a couple months would be even better so yeah it'll be again gonna be fun to watch thanks so much for all the boostagrams thanks so much for listening and we will see you again real soon with another episode of the future of podcasting keep boosting and keep podcasting