What If YouTube Music Succeeds?
What happens if YouTube DOESN'T Succeed? Let's talk about it.
Join us for an eye-opening journey into the future of podcasting in this episode titled "What if YouTube Podcasts Succeeds?" As we navigate the swirling currents of possibilities, your hosts, Daniel J. Lewis and Dave Jackson dive into a sea of burning questions and bold predictions.
What would the long-term repercussions be in a world where Google Podcasts outruns its competitors? The hosts will consider this scenario, examining potential outcomes and opportunities for creators and users.
We share his firsthand experience with YouTube Music, giving a quick test to understand the user interface and the integration of podcasts. Meanwhile, Dave brings the perspective of audiobooks on Spotify to the table, drawing comparisons and outlining the benefits and caveats of diversifying content types.
Indulge in a thought experiment with us — "What If It Was Good?" — contemplating the ideal scenario of Google mastering podcast integration.
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What if YouTube Podcasts actually succeeds?
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Well, you know, YouTube is trying to make this big push into
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what they think are podcasts. And we've talked about the whole thing of
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what is a podcast is, what YouTube doing, actually podcasting, all of
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that. I I actually want to put that aside
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for now and not debate definitions,
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but instead just look at what if this actually
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takes off? What if what they're calling YouTube
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podcasting actually becomes popular. Like,
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we look at Google Podcasts and some of the percentages
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were, what, 1%, 5%. You know,
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not in the top apps, but close. Right. So
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what if YouTube overtakes that
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and becomes a major destination for
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what we actually know as podcasts. I'm not
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saying, like, the stuff that's only video on YouTube being called a
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podcast. We're not talking about definitions, but what if people
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actually go to YouTube for their podcasts in the
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future and all the podcasts are on YouTube And
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what if that happens? That's interesting. The
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thing that's gonna be because I was thinking about what's the difference between Google Podcasts
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and a YouTube podcast. Yeah. Well, the biggest
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one is YouTube is sucking in your media
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file, and that's it. So you get one download from
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YouTube, YouTube Music, whatever we're gonna call it.
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And so it's going to be hard. Libsyn and
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Buzzsprout and these other places, they could look at the user agent
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and say, wow. We've got an x amount of thousands of downloads from this
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user agent. This puts it as the number 3 app.
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And I don't know how we're gonna do that unless I know at
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Podcast Movement Evolutions, they did mention that they have an
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API. Now what I don't know is if that is somehow
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because I don't know anything about API. I don't know anything about crypto. I don't
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know anything about APIs. But if that somehow feeds back
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information I mean, if you think about it, the early days and let's
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please not repeat this history. The early days of Spotify,
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they ingested your file and then fed back
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Spotify stats. I hope that's not where we're going with
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YouTube because in the end, it Or remember what Stitcher
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did for a while, where they also ingested your file. They rehosted
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it. They re encoded it. But they eventually did this
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thing where whenever someone would press play on their
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version of your file, they would also send some sort of
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ping over to your podcast hosting provider hosted
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file so that it could track the download. Now, this was before the IAB
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guidelines which required a certain amount to be downloaded for account. But there was
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that approach too. Yeah. So it's gonna be hard to
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to judge. And again, it's it's really hard
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for me to put the definition thing aside, but when they say a report
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and they say a podcast, podcasting on YouTube is
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now such and such, there is that side of me that goes, well,
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is it a podcast, or is it a YouTube podcast, or whatever we're
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gonna call it? So that's been my biggest gripe and
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about that is, well, how are we going to measure things then if if things
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are a little blurry? But it would be interesting to see. I did
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spend about 20 minutes, which doesn't
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sound like a long time. It is when you're just looking at an app that
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you're going, yeah. No. No. You know? And I
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I played with YouTube Music, and I was like, yeah. I'm not.
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And and both YouTube Music and Spotify,
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they have they're cramming everything in there. Like, I was listening
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to a pretty good book by the guy that founded
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AppSumo, and it's called The $1,000,000 Weekend.
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And so I'm listening to him. Like, this is great. I might actually cancel
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my Audible subscription, and then I went to make a bookmark,
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and you can't. And I was like, this is these are the things you
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get when you are, you know, when you try to do everything.
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Everything is, well, okay. Like, can I find podcasts in
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YouTube music? Yeah. Eventually, it's this tag thing, and
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you search, and everything's in video, and it's like so
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I I wish you know, for me, my my wish list would be you
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Spotify, you do music phenomenal. I pay for Spotify music. I
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love it. YouTube, you do video, great. Keep doing what you're doing.
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And, you know, Audible, you're great with audiobooks. You keep doing that
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because Audible has over the years, you know, they we you can submit your show
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to Amazon and have it go into Audible, but it'll be it's gonna be
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hard to measure. Absolutely. And that point of the API thing. Now
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props to you tube and Libsyn for working
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together because there is actually an API that Libsyn
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has been able to use when you allow Libsyn
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to cross publish your episode over to YouTube.
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And it's only when you let Libsyn do it for you,
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then Libsyn is able to get stats back from YouTube.
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But that's only if you let Libsyn upload it for you. If
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you're uploading it yourself or if you're doing
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something even more advanced like making an actual
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video, even though your traditional audio podcast
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and please do not attack me for the terms I'm about to use. I'm only
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using them for the sake of conversation. Even if your traditional audio
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podcast is only audio and it's in all the podcast apps,
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and then you have a video, quote, podcast,
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unquote, on YouTube and it's full video, well, that means
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you have to upload that separately. But that needs a separate kind of
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callback in order to register those stats.
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And and that point of you wouldn't really get to see it very
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well because the algorithms for just measuring engagement
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is very different. In podcasting, we have right now the IAB
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guidelines, which one of the major points of it is
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that one minute of audio must be downloaded
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chapters certain header information and data that's in the file. One minute of
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audio must be downloaded before it can be counted as a download.
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On YouTube, I think it's 10 seconds or 30
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seconds must be played before that little play counter
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will tick up once and count that as a play. So right there, you
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have a completely different number, 30 seconds versus 1
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minute. Now, that's nothing if someone actually consumes the entire
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episode. But when you're counting just mere
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numbers, and that's all that you're getting is this is the
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number, this is the download, well, then on YouTube, that's where you really
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have to look into the deeper stats. But if they could
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send that back to your podcast hosting provider, that could be great to
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see this is my actual consumption on YouTube. And as we
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also as I believe it was Dan Meisner who spoke about this and or Steven
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Goldstein, Several people actually have spoken about this is that
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it would be great if instead of just talking about downloads or downloads
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per episode or downloads per month or anything like that, if we instead
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talk about time listened. Or I would really say percentage
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listened might be better. That's the one I like. Yeah. Because if you've got a
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5 minute episode, you wanna know that people are listening to all of it.
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You don't wanna know they JSON to 5 minutes. That's not an impressive number to
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say, hey, you know, I get 5 minutes listened per week. Now you want, I
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get 100% of my episodes listened every week. That kind of
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information, YouTube does track that with all of their videos, and you can see that
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if you go into your analytics for your videos, whether that's fake
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video, real video, fake podcast, whatever. Any of that,
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you can see that, but they're not reporting that back to your podcast hosting
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provider. And in fact, none of the podcast apps
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report that consumption data back to your hosting provider. Oh,
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yeah. It would be awesome if they did. That would it it would be so
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nice to have that all in one spot and add it all together,
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and that's that's where as close as, you know, the IAB
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guidelines are and things like that, you it's and everybody
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is really measuring things, not hugely different, but kind of.
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I mean, Spotify, I think you have to listen to I don't
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think it's a well, no. Because they're IB certified. Well, Meg well, are
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they or are they not? I'd have to go to the dashboard. But,
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yeah, so it's everybody's a little different. We're very
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close, but we're also kind of different. It's not exact.
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And I think that goes back to the it's a guideline, not a standard. Like,
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the apps or games advertising for podcasts and generating
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basically fake downloads. Yeah. Not completely fake, but they're not completely
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real either. That kind of thing. There are ways to gain that
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too with Spotify. Like, here's the thing, just to
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point this out, the vulnerability here, Spotify allows
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you to rate a podcast. You can't write a review, but you can leave a
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rating for a podcast, but you must listen to the podcast before you
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do. And I think it's something like you must listen to
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30 seconds. I I don't remember the exact number, but here's the trick.
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Just click around in the timeline a few times, and you
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don't even have to listen to however many seconds it is. You just skip
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around, and then you can leave a rating. That's
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a vulnerability. That kind of thing needs to be patched.
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Yeah. And, you know, there's a really good
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solution for this, activity streams, which we'll
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do a separate episode to kind of put that whole conversation
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of activity streams into layman terms. But there is
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potential for that of something that could allow these
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apps if they wanted to. Some of them don't want to, and that's the
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bigger problem. But if they wanted to, they could report that consumption data.
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Yeah. That would be, someday, you
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know. So here's another thought experiment with this. You mentioned
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that you spend about 20 minutes or so just getting frustrated with the
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app. What if YouTube,
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you or slash YouTube music, whatever, actually
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became a good audio podcast
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experience instead of this whole having to
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convert things over to fake video or anything like that. It it actually functions like
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an audio podcast app. What if that happens? That would be
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different. It'd be great on one hand. I'm all for what
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makes it easier for the listener. And so if
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this becomes a super easy playlist creative they've already
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got playlists, so, you know, just a a great app, and
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we've talked about before what we want in an app. That would be amazing.
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I would love to to see that, because in the end,
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if it's too hard, if any app, then listeners
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aren't gonna be there. And I I heard where Edison Research came out, and
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now the average listener listens to I believe it's now
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up to 8 episodes a week, which is up from whatever previously
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was, so that was encouraging. And so if we
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can, you know, find something to make it easier and we get that up to
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9 or 10 or whatever, that would be amazing. So I'm all, you
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know, I don't care what app. I I've I've been playing
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with Padurama, and I like it because the interface is easy, you know.
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So whatever app is is great, and you were playing with Cast o Matic, that's
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what I've been using for a while, and I'm still as soon as Podcast
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Guru gets that smart playlist, I'm I'm all over for
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jumping on that, but, it'd be great. I would love to see
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it. It it I thought about this as we were thinking about this topic. Because
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on one hand, it's really easy to go, look,
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we've had Google Reader. We had, you know, all these different Google
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products that they've been taken away. So it's really easy to go, well, based on
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their track record, this probably isn't gonna be a success.
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But there is the flip side to that. They go, yeah, but the odds are
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kinda with them now because how many times can you
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fail? You know what I mean? It's like eventually, they're gonna figure out how
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to do something right, and I thought they had that with Google Podcasts.
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So You know, this is a flaw in
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the system, and maybe Adam would call this the the podcast
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industrial complex. And it's a flaw with open
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source as well, where you look
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at the way that Google does things and it's all proprietary software
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and all of that. And look at Android, their
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operating system for mobile devices. It's open source software.
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Anyone can use Android on their device if they want to. They can compile it,
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build it, do all this stuff. They can customize it, all of this stuff. They
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don't have to pay a licensing fee, anything like that. It's open source.
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What does Google stand to gain
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by having podcasts? Well, like, Google Podcast app
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was not preinstalled. Its functionality was preinstalled, but the
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actual app icon was not preinstalled. They gained nothing from
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that. No monetary value. It's not enhancing the experience on
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Android because it wasn't obviously native. Whereas,
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compare that to Apple Podcasts on iOS. IOS is a
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closed system. You can get iOS only on Apple
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Devices. But they make all of these apps
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that make the whole device experience better.
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And the more Apple products you have, the better the experience gets
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because all your Apple products talk nicely to each other, synchronize,
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hand off things to each other, all of this stuff. So when Apple adds
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a feature, it increases the value of the
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experience of their products. Google Podcasts did not
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increase the value of Android. And you look then at
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YouTube, well, where Google stands to benefit
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from YouTube and podcasts on YouTube
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is their own advertising. So the
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unfortunate thing is, I think, at least the way that they currently
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have this built out, they have to make it
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monetized. They have to enable advertising in
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some way around the experience, inside your content like they do with
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YouTube videos sometimes. That's what they have to do
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because they put themselves in this corner where instead
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of simply being an app that lets you
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download episodes from the RSS feed like an actual podcast app,
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they are rehosting the media. They're not
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only rehosting the MP Threes, the audio files, they
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are also converting those audio files
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into video to host fake
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video on their own platform. And the
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ratio of the size of video to audio is
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huge. Video bandwidth is so much more intensive.
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It takes so much more processing power to convert that. It takes
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so much more storage space. It's costing Google
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money to have brought podcasts to Google
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this way on YouTube, they have to make that
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money back or they are going to kill it again.
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Google Podcasts didn't cost them anything or barely anything. I mean,
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it cost them the people, the time to create the product. But Right.
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That could be one person or a couple of people. For a
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while, it was. And for a while, look at how well it
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did. Even though it wasn't Yeah. The pre installed
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icon on the app. Even though it had all of these uphill
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hurdles and all of that, look at how well it did anyway.
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And it was so simple and it just worked. YouTube
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is different. Yeah. It has to be monetized for them. It has to pay
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these bills that they've shot themselves in the foot, put themselves in a corner, and
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shot themselves with this. They have to bite the bullet. Lots of
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violent analogies here. They have
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made this more difficult for themselves because now it's costing
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them. Now they have to make money from our content that we
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allow them to distribute on YouTube podcasts.
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I'll wipe my mouth out later for that. So
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that makes me worried about the experience. But
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if they backtracked and turned
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it into something more like an actual podcast
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app, And they let people follow RSS
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feeds instead of YouTube channels. And they let people just get
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an audio focused experience,
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which I'm so disappointed in them. It's the biggest disappointment
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ever in podcasting to me, and it's the biggest flop, I think,
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right now at least. They could make it so much better. But right now, it's
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the biggest flop because they took the laziest,
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worst approach they could have done. And I I feel like
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with my scrappy development skills, I could have made something better
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in the amount of time that they've been hyping this up.
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And Well, the other thing that
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makes me confused is Rob at
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Lipson reached out and said, hey. What happens when
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you click on a Google link now? Is it going to redirect
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to a YouTube music link? And you can go find
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your show in YouTube music and share it. So there is a link that will
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direct people to your show in YouTube music.
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And they were like, well, right now, nothing. Like, we're not doing
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anything. And then Rob said even though it was after April 1st, you could still
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I think he said you were able to play it. So even though they said
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it was shut down, you could still play it, but I don't think it's gonna
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play it. On and hold Google Podcast link. Yeah. So, like, if
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you didn't take it off your website, like, what would happen to it?
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And, you know, the smart thing, if you want to really build
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your new app, you would just have it redirect where people could click on it
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and say, oh, I wanna follow this show Yes. In the new app. And
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instead, they they tried to train people on how
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to export an OPML file and import it into YouTube, and I was
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like, yeah, not the easiest path there where they could
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have just put in some sort of redirect, said the guy, of course, that doesn't
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do any programming, but I'm like, it sure seemed like an easy thing to do.
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They make both of these apps. They could have made a button that was
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just transferred to YouTube music, and and they could have just transferred
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that straight over. None of this download your OPML and then re
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upload it kinda thing, which is difficult enough to do on a mobile
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device. But I just checked my own link in the
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US when I visit my link that I have. I I've
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removed the icon from my site, but when I visit my secret link,
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then it takes me to a page that says Google Podcasts is no longer
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available. Listen to podcasts and build your library in the YouTube Music
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app. And there's a button to explore YouTube Music.
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Nothing about where to get this podcast
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from, let alone even the name of the podcast someone
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just visited. In fact, the URL, yeah, it's now just podcast.google.com.
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It just redirects my old Google podcast link now just redirects
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to podcast.google.com with that page. That's disappointing.
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Yeah. So in the keeping score here, what if
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YouTube was big? That's kind of like, it sure doesn't look
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like they're they didn't think this through. Because the
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hardest thing I always tell people, if you start a new show
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so let's say I did a show about Star Trek, and I was just tired
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of talking about Star Trek, and I decided I'm gonna do a show about Star
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Wars. The stupidest thing you could do is not let your audience know,
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hey, if you like, you know, Star Trek, I'm gonna start a new show on
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Star Wars, and this one will stop because your audience might follow you.
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And then if if you actually took the first show away, you could redirect
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it to the new show. And granted, there are some people like, I hate Star
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Wars. I don't want this. Well, fine. But at least you made it for
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your your listeners. They could either stay or go. And
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this just seems like why are you making it so hard? And
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I I also think look, we're we're nerds. Most of us
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that listen to the show are nerds. So we can export an OPML and import.
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It's no big deal. But I don't think the general public that went over their
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heads. And I I know in support, I've had people like, hey,
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what happened to Google Podcasts? Because they're not nerds. They're not
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running in this circle, and I've been pointing to, like, here's, you know, Podcast
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Goori, here's Padurama, here's Podcast Addict, you know, and then when you start
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mentioning feeds, they're like, what what is this weird voodoo you are speaking
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of? So they, again, they kinda missed a boat. So
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it'd be great. I would love to see it again soar, but
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the you know, your first impression is is not a great
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one right now. As when I heard that, I was like, oh, are you kidding
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me? They're not doing they're just setting you to a dead end here with no
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real links to to get you going. Still have a chance to redeem
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themselves. They could certainly change
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that. They could because there are already apps out
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there that all you have to do is there's a certain URL pattern that
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you follow plus the RSS feed, and
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it will then let you subscribe to that or follow that feed
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in that app without that podcast actually being
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inside that app. You can do that with Overcast. You can do that with Apple
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Podcasts, with many podcast apps out there, that
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simple formula, Google Podcasts already has
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those RSS feed URLs. They could have
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very simply done that kind of thing or, like, googlepodcast.com.
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Well, that's not the actual link, but that dot com slash
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my feed URL now redirects to youtube
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music.com/subscribe to podcast
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question mark feed equals and then the feed. Whatever. They could have done
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that kind of thing to make it a seamless transition. That kind of
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thing really bugs me when people don't think about
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all of the links that are out there. I'm the type, when I
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bio domain, if I speak a domain, I
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have it for life. Because I think, you know, on my
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deathbed, someone out there is gonna think,
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I heard this URL from Daniel once. I'm gonna go visit that. I want
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that URL to still work. Right. It's funny because we started off with this,
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like, wouldn't it be great if this turned into a big thing? And the more
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we talk about this, I'm just sitting here thinking, yeah, it's not.
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I I hope they prove me wrong. I know the
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response we heard was, you know, later this year, they
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will officially, I guess, everywhere. I think some of this is just in the
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US. But eventually, it will, like, just be gone. They're just gonna, you know,
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obliterate obliterate? I just made up a new word. They're just gonna wipe it off
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the planet, and maybe that's when they put in a redirect. And if
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they do that, then again, it's like, oh, great. Now that we've all figured out
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other apps to use, you're gonna make it easy to move to
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the new one. So, again, I could be wrong. Maybe they'll do
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something, but I'd But I do wanna take this back
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to a positive side. Okay. If this becomes a big
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thing and if they do this right, if they if they fix it
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really, what I think this could be great is that here are
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people on YouTube already consuming content,
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mostly video content. Yes. There's plenty of fake video out there that's not
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also a podcast. But regardless, people are on
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there to consume content that they listen
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to or watch. It would be wonderful
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to have podcasts, actual podcasts, right alongside
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that and get recommended in the same algorithms.
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But, sorry, I have to go back to this, YouTube has to think about it
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differently. Like, you think about the YouTube algorithm where you
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watch a video and then 20 minutes later, you've
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learned how to build a nuclear bomb. Because you've just gone down this rabbit hole
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of video after video. And I'm sorry, not 20 minutes chapters, 20
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hours later because you can get down that rabbit hole
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where YouTube just recommends video chapters video after video
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related to that and also using that whole algorithms as as it starts to learn
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what you're interested in. That same kind of thing could happen with podcast
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too, but they need to do it in a way that
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actually gives audio podcasts equal
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position and equal interest
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to an audience who's looking for video. And that's the
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thing that I've seen in the past and one of the reasons why I'm so
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against fake video on YouTube is that I've seen this kind of thing
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where managing a fake video channel before
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where the video got huge view counts
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and then a massive drop off, 95% or so
402
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within the first 90 seconds. I think that's what it was. And almost no one
403
00:25:27,410 --> 00:25:31,174
was listening after 5 minutes. And we're talking from
404
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20,000, 30,000 views down to
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a handful. And that's because
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that video was probably algorithmically
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recommended or was searched for, and it showed up as
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relevant, but then people quickly abandoned it as soon as they figured out
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what it was. If you can set people's expectation ahead of
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time before they press on it, then
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they're more likely to stick around. I've done split
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tests with this on websites and stuff and I've seen studies on this as
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well. Set those expectations. So if in that recommended
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list, maybe there's a thing where it's like recommended
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video and then there's another section that's recommended audio,
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something like that. And even for myself, I
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think I would be more likely to click and listen to the
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video or I'm sorry. Like,
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the Freudian slip there. I would be more likely to
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listen to the audio on YouTube
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if I knew it was only audio. But right now,
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when I see certain videos on YouTube,
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that there are certain video games that I play and I'm interested in and such.
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And I'll go to their YouTube channel and they're cover they're covering, like, the latest
425
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updates or something like that. And I want to see
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what they're talking about, and I keep expecting to see
427
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it because it's a video, and it is a true video. There's something
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going on on the screen. But what frustrates me so many times
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is the video is pointless. It's just video of them playing the game
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while they talk over that video. So that kind
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of experience could be so much better as only
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audio and if they could let me know ahead of
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time this is an audio, then I would be more likely
434
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to listen through it because I'm not then watching it getting
435
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frustrated with every second, waiting to see something that's
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actually relevant to what they're talking about and never getting it.
437
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But if I know this is only a listening experience, then I can press
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play, switch tabs, switch apps, whatever, and
439
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listen while I'm then doing everything else that I would do with the
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podcast. Yeah. Elsie just made this point on the feed
441
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that she's noticing a trend where people are having AI
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generate titles, and it sounds great. And it's this huge title
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that, you know, you can do this in a $1,000,000 in 5 seconds
444
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She goes, and the problem is it mentions something very
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specific. Like like, let's say your video game is, like, you
446
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know, the 5 steps to solve level 3, and you're
447
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like, perfect. Great. And then you go and you watch,
448
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and they gave you something very specific, and they never talk about that.
449
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They That is, you know, how to lose your audience.
450
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Yeah. And that's where I think
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you'll see a spike. Right? You're gonna hit the algorithm because that title
452
00:28:30,029 --> 00:28:33,815
is amazing, and you got a great thumbnail. And then people
453
00:28:33,815 --> 00:28:37,495
see it, and welcome to American Idol. You had your 5 minutes of
454
00:28:37,495 --> 00:28:41,270
fame, and now you're gone. And, sure, you might gleam
455
00:28:41,330 --> 00:28:44,530
a few people because at least you're playing the game they like, but they're not
456
00:28:44,530 --> 00:28:48,355
gonna stick around. And I would much rather as much as
457
00:28:48,355 --> 00:28:51,735
I would love to have 10,000 downloads, but, you know,
458
00:28:52,915 --> 00:28:56,560
the the people that grow organically, it is slower.
459
00:28:56,560 --> 00:29:00,320
It's slower than I think anything. You know, growing an email list is
460
00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:03,780
probably chapters. Growing a blog is probably chapters. But growing an e
461
00:29:04,090 --> 00:29:07,905
podcast, it's it's a you know, we always say it's a marathon, not a
462
00:29:07,905 --> 00:29:11,745
sprint, and that's not just a fun bumper sticker. That's the truth. And
463
00:29:11,745 --> 00:29:15,050
so, you know, we've gotta be truthful with our titles,
464
00:29:15,670 --> 00:29:19,430
and, you know, that's again where algorithms, on one hand, yay,
465
00:29:19,430 --> 00:29:22,895
we've solved the discoverability problem, he said in quotation
466
00:29:22,895 --> 00:29:26,575
marks. But on the other hand, well, I hope you liked your 10 minutes of
467
00:29:26,575 --> 00:29:30,320
fame. You know, you you you rode the wave, but now you gotta swim
468
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:33,380
back out in the ocean and try to catch another one. Book on a Kindle?
469
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:37,760
No. It's not a great experience. I've tried it multiple times where you'll get
470
00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:40,715
it. Because it's a cool thing that you actually get an email. If you have
471
00:29:40,715 --> 00:29:44,555
a Kindle, you know, you get an email address that you can get
472
00:29:44,555 --> 00:29:48,350
a, you know, some sort of PDF, and you just attach it and
473
00:29:48,350 --> 00:29:50,910
send it to that email, and it will show up on your Kindle. And I
474
00:29:50,910 --> 00:29:54,610
was like, this is amazing. But some of the features in the Kindle,
475
00:29:54,670 --> 00:29:58,055
like making the font bigger or some other things, it just
476
00:29:58,055 --> 00:30:01,895
didn't quite because it wasn't exactly made for a Kindle.
477
00:30:01,895 --> 00:30:05,160
It's you're kind of you need a square peg a little bit into that that
478
00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:07,900
hole. So So so what is an ebook?
479
00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:12,600
That aside, what I meant was, like, an actual ebook that you've
480
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:16,285
purchased from Amazon that was then delivered automatically through
481
00:30:16,285 --> 00:30:20,045
Kindle. Perfect. I love that because I do it all the time. I actually have
482
00:30:20,045 --> 00:30:23,700
Kindle Unlimited, so I can read as many books as I want. So one of
483
00:30:23,700 --> 00:30:27,460
the things I love about doing that, and I've got a Kindle, and I really
484
00:30:27,460 --> 00:30:31,095
prefer to read something on it. For one thing, it's avoids the distractions.
485
00:30:31,235 --> 00:30:34,934
But one of the features I really love, the community
486
00:30:35,235 --> 00:30:38,770
highlights. Yes. That when you're reading a book that's from
487
00:30:38,770 --> 00:30:42,450
Amazon, not something you've uploaded manually, you get to
488
00:30:42,450 --> 00:30:45,350
see things that other people have found interesting.
489
00:30:46,785 --> 00:30:50,545
And what goes through your mind when you see that? When you're reading along, and
490
00:30:50,545 --> 00:30:53,985
then you see that little underline, and you see this many thousands of people
491
00:30:53,985 --> 00:30:57,390
highlighted this. What goes through your mind today? Oh, I if especially if I see
492
00:30:57,390 --> 00:31:01,070
it at the bottom of the page, I'm like, oh, something good is coming up.
493
00:31:01,070 --> 00:31:04,765
And then I also go, you know what? While I'm here, I'm gonna
494
00:31:04,765 --> 00:31:07,825
highlight that too. That is good stuff. Me too.
495
00:31:08,365 --> 00:31:12,145
What if Google put that into podcasts
496
00:31:12,365 --> 00:31:15,730
on YouTube where they could pull the excerpts
497
00:31:15,950 --> 00:31:19,310
out and recommend excerpts of
498
00:31:19,310 --> 00:31:22,934
that along with all of the other videos. So one of these
499
00:31:22,934 --> 00:31:26,635
problems with podcasting is that podcasts are long form audio
500
00:31:26,695 --> 00:31:30,235
mostly. There are plenty of Yep. True video podcasts out there.
501
00:31:30,855 --> 00:31:34,549
But it's long form audio, and that is difficult to go viral.
502
00:31:34,610 --> 00:31:38,289
Videos on YouTube are usually chapters. But also, if they're
503
00:31:38,289 --> 00:31:41,955
true video, they're a lot more engaging. They're engaging so
504
00:31:41,955 --> 00:31:45,794
much more of your senses. You can understand people better also when you're watching
505
00:31:45,794 --> 00:31:49,554
them instead of only listening to them. Yeah. There are all of these other problems
506
00:31:49,554 --> 00:31:53,279
about video, like it's not portable, bandwidth issues, all of that. That aside,
507
00:31:54,059 --> 00:31:57,039
if you're watching a really interesting video,
508
00:31:57,899 --> 00:32:01,585
YouTube could then recommend in their
509
00:32:01,585 --> 00:32:05,285
algorithm an excerpt from an audio podcast.
510
00:32:06,225 --> 00:32:09,990
And when you click on it, it jumps you straight to that section of
511
00:32:09,990 --> 00:32:13,690
the audio, kind of like this many 1000 people
512
00:32:14,150 --> 00:32:17,905
found this also interesting or that you
513
00:32:17,905 --> 00:32:21,745
might also like, but instead of recommending an entire episode that
514
00:32:21,745 --> 00:32:25,505
starts off with, hey, everybody. How are you doing? It's really good to hear you.
515
00:32:25,505 --> 00:32:29,140
Hey. Don't forget to rate and review the podcast. This week, we've got coming
516
00:32:29,300 --> 00:32:32,580
you know, all of that stuff that sometimes podcasters waste a lot of time up
517
00:32:32,580 --> 00:32:36,375
front. What if they could just jump to that section? And
518
00:32:36,375 --> 00:32:39,755
then in the app, while they're listening to that section,
519
00:32:39,895 --> 00:32:43,655
then YouTube is saying, click here to listen to the full
520
00:32:43,655 --> 00:32:47,310
episode. Just like there's, bible.com as a
521
00:32:47,310 --> 00:32:51,070
Bible website Yeah. Where you can search an individual verse, but then there's the
522
00:32:51,070 --> 00:32:54,565
link right there that lets you view that whole verse in context.
523
00:32:54,725 --> 00:32:58,424
Christians, you need to click that every time you look up an individual verse.
524
00:32:58,804 --> 00:33:02,424
But that kind of thing could be brought to YouTube also
525
00:33:02,644 --> 00:33:05,690
so that they are recommending the specific
526
00:33:06,150 --> 00:33:09,750
content that's relevant to what someone is watching. And they're also
527
00:33:09,750 --> 00:33:13,210
then doing that carryover, helping discovery,
528
00:33:13,510 --> 00:33:16,955
actually, because they're making that transition that you are
529
00:33:16,955 --> 00:33:20,635
watching this thing. Here is a short
530
00:33:20,635 --> 00:33:24,260
audio snippet you might also like that's about the
531
00:33:24,260 --> 00:33:27,860
same thing. Thousands of other people liked this
532
00:33:27,860 --> 00:33:30,200
too. Click here to listen.
533
00:33:32,794 --> 00:33:36,554
That would be great. It'll be interesting to, to see.
534
00:33:36,554 --> 00:33:40,255
I know they are doing YouTube is doing some
535
00:33:40,900 --> 00:33:44,500
webinars. I know they're doing one with JSON. So by the time you hear
536
00:33:44,500 --> 00:33:48,340
this, it's already happened, but I know they're they're doing some to kinda get the
537
00:33:48,340 --> 00:33:51,725
word out. So it'd be interesting to see if they
538
00:33:51,725 --> 00:33:55,405
change anything. Because right now, the way it's set up, you're just doing
539
00:33:55,405 --> 00:33:59,245
YouTube with audio. You can't, you know, replace
540
00:33:59,245 --> 00:34:02,860
a file. It's very much it's just YouTube, except it's, you
541
00:34:02,860 --> 00:34:06,540
know, a static image instead of a an actual video. So it'd be
542
00:34:06,540 --> 00:34:10,255
interesting to see if they bend the rules at all. I'm
543
00:34:10,255 --> 00:34:13,715
not optimistic, but they could surprise me. You never know.
544
00:34:14,574 --> 00:34:18,335
Our friend and founder of Podfest Multimedia Expo, Chris
545
00:34:18,335 --> 00:34:22,080
Kremitzos, wrote a great book, Start Ugly, a
546
00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:25,920
timeless tale about innovation and change. And I
547
00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:29,375
will say, YouTube podcasts have started
548
00:34:29,675 --> 00:34:33,215
very ugly. But this is a good but.
549
00:34:33,915 --> 00:34:37,730
They have a lot of potential and I want them
550
00:34:37,730 --> 00:34:40,869
to succeed with this. I want them
551
00:34:41,489 --> 00:34:44,710
to make this a more integrated experience, a crossover
552
00:34:45,010 --> 00:34:48,515
experience to actually crossover people from
553
00:34:48,515 --> 00:34:52,195
watching to listening. YouTube, I think, is
554
00:34:52,195 --> 00:34:55,920
uniquely positioned to do that because YouTube
555
00:34:55,980 --> 00:34:59,740
is the only place people are going or it's the most
556
00:34:59,740 --> 00:35:03,395
popular place people are going to stream free
557
00:35:03,775 --> 00:35:07,615
video content. I watch it every day on my TV. I go
558
00:35:07,615 --> 00:35:10,595
to lunch, and I have a YouTube button on my remote.
559
00:35:11,310 --> 00:35:15,070
So and I think more and more people are doing that, that it's it's
560
00:35:15,070 --> 00:35:18,895
now because the beauty of it is with YouTube
561
00:35:18,895 --> 00:35:22,734
and the algorithm, I have my subscriptions. And instead of
562
00:35:22,734 --> 00:35:26,529
I could surf on Netflix trying to find something good, or I could click
563
00:35:26,529 --> 00:35:29,650
the YouTube button and go right to my subscriptions and go, oh, look. Tom Buck
564
00:35:29,650 --> 00:35:33,385
has a new video out. Click. You know? So you it's it's similar
565
00:35:33,385 --> 00:35:37,225
to, like, Netflix, but it just seems like you have to search so far in
566
00:35:37,225 --> 00:35:40,765
Netflix to find something good. And you're like, oh, here's a new movie
567
00:35:40,825 --> 00:35:44,619
featuring this actor that I like from what? I didn't know this.
568
00:35:44,619 --> 00:35:48,059
1981. Like, oh, wait a minute. That's that's that's not
569
00:35:48,059 --> 00:35:51,734
good. So Where it'll be fun to watch. Where
570
00:35:51,734 --> 00:35:55,335
all the other podcast apps are great with the
571
00:35:55,335 --> 00:35:59,174
podcast consumption experience. They're not good at discovery, cross
572
00:35:59,174 --> 00:36:02,980
promotion, recommendation, all of that. I know there's some work being done in some
573
00:36:02,980 --> 00:36:06,740
of those apps to improve that. YouTube, not great
574
00:36:06,740 --> 00:36:10,340
on the audio podcast consumption experience. Still early.
575
00:36:10,340 --> 00:36:14,175
Yes. Fantastic on the algorithm
576
00:36:14,315 --> 00:36:17,995
side. So if they could I I think
577
00:36:17,995 --> 00:36:21,640
it's easier to improve the podcast ex consumption
578
00:36:22,020 --> 00:36:25,860
experience than it is to improve the algorithm. This thing
579
00:36:25,860 --> 00:36:28,895
that I described, like transitioning people from video to audio,
580
00:36:29,275 --> 00:36:32,955
that's probably just a few simple tweaks in their
581
00:36:32,955 --> 00:36:36,319
algorithm, and they can do that. Well, they said in their
582
00:36:36,319 --> 00:36:39,859
presentation of podcast movement evolutions where the algorithm
583
00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:43,460
will often send you stuff from other people.
584
00:36:44,145 --> 00:36:47,825
And they said, maybe if you're flagged as a podcast, maybe
585
00:36:47,825 --> 00:36:51,285
it will purposely send you to the next episode.
586
00:36:51,710 --> 00:36:53,870
And I'm, like, well, that would be great. I heard that. And you know what
587
00:36:53,870 --> 00:36:57,710
I thought? Oh, you mean, like a podcast
588
00:36:57,710 --> 00:37:00,805
app does? It takes you to the next episode?
589
00:37:02,465 --> 00:37:05,825
Yeah. But I was also, like, wait a minute. In
590
00:37:05,825 --> 00:37:09,420
YouTube, on my videos, I say, show them the best
591
00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:13,400
video that you feel is the best from my channel. And I'm
592
00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:17,045
like, wait. You just said you send them to other people. And, really, I think
593
00:37:17,045 --> 00:37:20,645
what he's talking about is that right channel. The the basically, the
594
00:37:20,645 --> 00:37:23,925
distraction channel. So, sure, at the end of the video, they'll send you one of
595
00:37:23,925 --> 00:37:27,619
yours. But in the meantime, here's 7 other ones that you might like, and
596
00:37:27,619 --> 00:37:31,300
you're probably gonna click on those before, you know, the actual video
597
00:37:31,300 --> 00:37:34,335
is over. So only time will tell.
598
00:37:35,195 --> 00:37:38,975
So, Daniel, did we get any boostograms? We did.
599
00:37:39,115 --> 00:37:42,630
25100 sats from Dwev, and I learned that is the correct
600
00:37:42,630 --> 00:37:46,470
pronunciation. He said, I agree with all your points about Cast O Matic, Daniel.
601
00:37:46,470 --> 00:37:50,055
It is my current primary player, but it's my favorite. The
602
00:37:50,055 --> 00:37:53,495
UX, that's user experience, around setting up value for
603
00:37:53,495 --> 00:37:56,935
value is so easy and having the boost button right there means I'm
604
00:37:56,935 --> 00:38:00,619
boosting much more. I know. It's so tempting to press that button.
605
00:38:01,079 --> 00:38:04,440
Also, the SAT slash fiat reference works in multiple
606
00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:08,175
currencies, which is also awesome. That's great to know. I'd like to be able
607
00:38:08,175 --> 00:38:12,015
to manually refresh a feed slash episode to get updated show notes or
608
00:38:12,015 --> 00:38:15,770
super chapters, etcetera. Thank you so much, Dwev, for that
609
00:38:15,770 --> 00:38:19,530
comment as well as the 25100 stats boost. Yeah. That's awesome. I
610
00:38:19,530 --> 00:38:23,375
do believe if you swipe down, if you're looking in the
611
00:38:23,375 --> 00:38:27,055
app, I think if you just pull down, it does do something where some
612
00:38:27,055 --> 00:38:30,900
little, you know, circle thing spins around. So it looks like
613
00:38:30,900 --> 00:38:34,740
it's refreshing. I believe the the fun part with any
614
00:38:34,740 --> 00:38:38,335
kind of podcast is especially I know last week.
615
00:38:38,335 --> 00:38:41,935
Thanks, Dave. I put out our episode, and I
616
00:38:41,935 --> 00:38:45,694
had we had some issues with that episode. And at one point, I
617
00:38:45,694 --> 00:38:49,450
have a live chat on my website, and I forgot to turn it off.
618
00:38:49,510 --> 00:38:53,190
And so if you heard this bell ringing about 12 minutes and 40 seconds
619
00:38:53,190 --> 00:38:56,785
in, that was Dave's fault. And so that went out, and
620
00:38:56,785 --> 00:38:58,705
somebody said, hey. Do you know you have this weird sound in it? And it
621
00:38:58,705 --> 00:39:02,385
was like, I easily fixed it and put it back out. But if you downloaded
622
00:39:02,385 --> 00:39:06,120
the first one, it's not going to redownload. I guess I could have you
623
00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:08,840
know, there are ways you can do this. You can create a new episode and
624
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:12,345
say repost and but if you just fix the file, that
625
00:39:12,345 --> 00:39:15,865
fix everything from this point forward. But everybody else got the
626
00:39:15,865 --> 00:39:19,609
collector's edition, so congratulations on that. You know, a side note, I've put
627
00:39:19,609 --> 00:39:23,450
forward a proposal that Adam Curry actually liked, but no one's
628
00:39:23,450 --> 00:39:26,589
discussed it. It was maybe 2 years ago I put forward this proposal
629
00:39:26,995 --> 00:39:30,835
that basically you could have a tag to say this
630
00:39:30,835 --> 00:39:34,675
replaces this other episode. And so if you ever put out
631
00:39:34,675 --> 00:39:38,240
an episode with that replaces tag on it
632
00:39:38,540 --> 00:39:42,060
then it would automatically delete the
633
00:39:42,060 --> 00:39:45,680
previous episode or maybe it prompts the user to say hey there's a new version
634
00:39:45,715 --> 00:39:49,475
of this. Would you rather download or redownload this new version or listen
635
00:39:49,475 --> 00:39:53,060
to this new version or do you wanna pick up from this current time but
636
00:39:53,060 --> 00:39:56,740
on this other file? That kind of thing. That would be neat to see,
637
00:39:56,740 --> 00:40:00,505
but that's that's a very niche feature that we
638
00:40:00,505 --> 00:40:03,805
shouldn't need. Yeah. We shouldn't need, but we do. That's the problem.
639
00:40:04,185 --> 00:40:07,730
So, yeah, I like that idea. Excellent. So, alright.
640
00:40:07,730 --> 00:40:11,570
Well, tell us what you think. Are you optimistic about YouTube music, or
641
00:40:11,570 --> 00:40:15,090
are you a person that's like, I don't know.
642
00:40:15,330 --> 00:40:19,095
Send us a boost and let us know. And, of course, we'll be reading those
643
00:40:19,234 --> 00:40:23,075
on the next episode of the future of podcasting. Thanks so much for listening.
644
00:40:23,075 --> 00:40:26,550
That's gonna do it for this episode. Keep boosting and keep
645
00:40:26,550 --> 00:40:27,050
podcasting.