What If YouTube Music Succeeds?

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What if YouTube Podcasts actually succeeds?

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Well, you know, YouTube is trying to make this big push into

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what they think are podcasts. And we've talked about the whole thing of

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what is a podcast is, what YouTube doing, actually podcasting, all of

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that. I I actually want to put that aside

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for now and not debate definitions,

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but instead just look at what if this actually

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takes off? What if what they're calling YouTube

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podcasting actually becomes popular. Like,

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we look at Google Podcasts and some of the percentages

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were, what, 1%, 5%. You know,

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not in the top apps, but close. Right. So

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what if YouTube overtakes that

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and becomes a major destination for

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what we actually know as podcasts. I'm not

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saying, like, the stuff that's only video on YouTube being called a

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podcast. We're not talking about definitions, but what if people

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actually go to YouTube for their podcasts in the

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future and all the podcasts are on YouTube And

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what if that happens? That's interesting. The

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thing that's gonna be because I was thinking about what's the difference between Google Podcasts

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and a YouTube podcast. Yeah. Well, the biggest

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one is YouTube is sucking in your media

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file, and that's it. So you get one download from

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YouTube, YouTube Music, whatever we're gonna call it.

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And so it's going to be hard. Libsyn and

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Buzzsprout and these other places, they could look at the user agent

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and say, wow. We've got an x amount of thousands of downloads from this

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user agent. This puts it as the number 3 app.

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And I don't know how we're gonna do that unless I know at

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Podcast Movement Evolutions, they did mention that they have an

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API. Now what I don't know is if that is somehow

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because I don't know anything about API. I don't know anything about crypto. I don't

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know anything about APIs. But if that somehow feeds back

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information I mean, if you think about it, the early days and let's

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please not repeat this history. The early days of Spotify,

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they ingested your file and then fed back

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Spotify stats. I hope that's not where we're going with

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YouTube because in the end, it Or remember what Stitcher

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did for a while, where they also ingested your file. They rehosted

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it. They re encoded it. But they eventually did this

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thing where whenever someone would press play on their

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version of your file, they would also send some sort of

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ping over to your podcast hosting provider hosted

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file so that it could track the download. Now, this was before the IAB

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guidelines which required a certain amount to be downloaded for account. But there was

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that approach too. Yeah. So it's gonna be hard to

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to judge. And again, it's it's really hard

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for me to put the definition thing aside, but when they say a report

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and they say a podcast, podcasting on YouTube is

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now such and such, there is that side of me that goes, well,

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is it a podcast, or is it a YouTube podcast, or whatever we're

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gonna call it? So that's been my biggest gripe and

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about that is, well, how are we going to measure things then if if things

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are a little blurry? But it would be interesting to see. I did

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spend about 20 minutes, which doesn't

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sound like a long time. It is when you're just looking at an app that

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you're going, yeah. No. No. You know? And I

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I played with YouTube Music, and I was like, yeah. I'm not.

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And and both YouTube Music and Spotify,

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they have they're cramming everything in there. Like, I was listening

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to a pretty good book by the guy that founded

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AppSumo, and it's called The $1,000,000 Weekend.

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And so I'm listening to him. Like, this is great. I might actually cancel

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my Audible subscription, and then I went to make a bookmark,

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and you can't. And I was like, this is these are the things you

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get when you are, you know, when you try to do everything.

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Everything is, well, okay. Like, can I find podcasts in

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YouTube music? Yeah. Eventually, it's this tag thing, and

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you search, and everything's in video, and it's like so

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I I wish you know, for me, my my wish list would be you

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Spotify, you do music phenomenal. I pay for Spotify music. I

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love it. YouTube, you do video, great. Keep doing what you're doing.

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And, you know, Audible, you're great with audiobooks. You keep doing that

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because Audible has over the years, you know, they we you can submit your show

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to Amazon and have it go into Audible, but it'll be it's gonna be

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hard to measure. Absolutely. And that point of the API thing. Now

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props to you tube and Libsyn for working

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together because there is actually an API that Libsyn

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has been able to use when you allow Libsyn

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to cross publish your episode over to YouTube.

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And it's only when you let Libsyn do it for you,

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then Libsyn is able to get stats back from YouTube.

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But that's only if you let Libsyn upload it for you. If

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you're uploading it yourself or if you're doing

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something even more advanced like making an actual

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video, even though your traditional audio podcast

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and please do not attack me for the terms I'm about to use. I'm only

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using them for the sake of conversation. Even if your traditional audio

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podcast is only audio and it's in all the podcast apps,

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and then you have a video, quote, podcast,

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unquote, on YouTube and it's full video, well, that means

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you have to upload that separately. But that needs a separate kind of

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callback in order to register those stats.

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And and that point of you wouldn't really get to see it very

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well because the algorithms for just measuring engagement

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is very different. In podcasting, we have right now the IAB

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guidelines, which one of the major points of it is

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that one minute of audio must be downloaded

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chapters certain header information and data that's in the file. One minute of

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audio must be downloaded before it can be counted as a download.

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On YouTube, I think it's 10 seconds or 30

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seconds must be played before that little play counter

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will tick up once and count that as a play. So right there, you

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have a completely different number, 30 seconds versus 1

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minute. Now, that's nothing if someone actually consumes the entire

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episode. But when you're counting just mere

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numbers, and that's all that you're getting is this is the

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number, this is the download, well, then on YouTube, that's where you really

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have to look into the deeper stats. But if they could

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send that back to your podcast hosting provider, that could be great to

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see this is my actual consumption on YouTube. And as we

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also as I believe it was Dan Meisner who spoke about this and or Steven

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Goldstein, Several people actually have spoken about this is that

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it would be great if instead of just talking about downloads or downloads

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per episode or downloads per month or anything like that, if we instead

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talk about time listened. Or I would really say percentage

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listened might be better. That's the one I like. Yeah. Because if you've got a

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5 minute episode, you wanna know that people are listening to all of it.

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You don't wanna know they JSON to 5 minutes. That's not an impressive number to

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say, hey, you know, I get 5 minutes listened per week. Now you want, I

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get 100% of my episodes listened every week. That kind of

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information, YouTube does track that with all of their videos, and you can see that

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if you go into your analytics for your videos, whether that's fake

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video, real video, fake podcast, whatever. Any of that,

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you can see that, but they're not reporting that back to your podcast hosting

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provider. And in fact, none of the podcast apps

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report that consumption data back to your hosting provider. Oh,

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yeah. It would be awesome if they did. That would it it would be so

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nice to have that all in one spot and add it all together,

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and that's that's where as close as, you know, the IAB

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guidelines are and things like that, you it's and everybody

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is really measuring things, not hugely different, but kind of.

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I mean, Spotify, I think you have to listen to I don't

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think it's a well, no. Because they're IB certified. Well, Meg well, are

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they or are they not? I'd have to go to the dashboard. But,

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yeah, so it's everybody's a little different. We're very

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close, but we're also kind of different. It's not exact.

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And I think that goes back to the it's a guideline, not a standard. Like,

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the apps or games advertising for podcasts and generating

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basically fake downloads. Yeah. Not completely fake, but they're not completely

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real either. That kind of thing. There are ways to gain that

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too with Spotify. Like, here's the thing, just to

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point this out, the vulnerability here, Spotify allows

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you to rate a podcast. You can't write a review, but you can leave a

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rating for a podcast, but you must listen to the podcast before you

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do. And I think it's something like you must listen to

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30 seconds. I I don't remember the exact number, but here's the trick.

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Just click around in the timeline a few times, and you

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don't even have to listen to however many seconds it is. You just skip

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around, and then you can leave a rating. That's

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a vulnerability. That kind of thing needs to be patched.

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Yeah. And, you know, there's a really good

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solution for this, activity streams, which we'll

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do a separate episode to kind of put that whole conversation

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of activity streams into layman terms. But there is

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potential for that of something that could allow these

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apps if they wanted to. Some of them don't want to, and that's the

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bigger problem. But if they wanted to, they could report that consumption data.

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Yeah. That would be, someday, you

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know. So here's another thought experiment with this. You mentioned

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that you spend about 20 minutes or so just getting frustrated with the

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app. What if YouTube,

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you or slash YouTube music, whatever, actually

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became a good audio podcast

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experience instead of this whole having to

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convert things over to fake video or anything like that. It it actually functions like

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an audio podcast app. What if that happens? That would be

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different. It'd be great on one hand. I'm all for what

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makes it easier for the listener. And so if

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this becomes a super easy playlist creative they've already

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got playlists, so, you know, just a a great app, and

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we've talked about before what we want in an app. That would be amazing.

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I would love to to see that, because in the end,

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if it's too hard, if any app, then listeners

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aren't gonna be there. And I I heard where Edison Research came out, and

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now the average listener listens to I believe it's now

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up to 8 episodes a week, which is up from whatever previously

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was, so that was encouraging. And so if we

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can, you know, find something to make it easier and we get that up to

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9 or 10 or whatever, that would be amazing. So I'm all, you

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know, I don't care what app. I I've I've been playing

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with Padurama, and I like it because the interface is easy, you know.

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So whatever app is is great, and you were playing with Cast o Matic, that's

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what I've been using for a while, and I'm still as soon as Podcast

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Guru gets that smart playlist, I'm I'm all over for

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jumping on that, but, it'd be great. I would love to see

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it. It it I thought about this as we were thinking about this topic. Because

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on one hand, it's really easy to go, look,

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we've had Google Reader. We had, you know, all these different Google

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products that they've been taken away. So it's really easy to go, well, based on

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their track record, this probably isn't gonna be a success.

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But there is the flip side to that. They go, yeah, but the odds are

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kinda with them now because how many times can you

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fail? You know what I mean? It's like eventually, they're gonna figure out how

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to do something right, and I thought they had that with Google Podcasts.

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So You know, this is a flaw in

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the system, and maybe Adam would call this the the podcast

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industrial complex. And it's a flaw with open

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source as well, where you look

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at the way that Google does things and it's all proprietary software

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and all of that. And look at Android, their

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operating system for mobile devices. It's open source software.

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Anyone can use Android on their device if they want to. They can compile it,

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build it, do all this stuff. They can customize it, all of this stuff. They

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don't have to pay a licensing fee, anything like that. It's open source.

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What does Google stand to gain

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by having podcasts? Well, like, Google Podcast app

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was not preinstalled. Its functionality was preinstalled, but the

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actual app icon was not preinstalled. They gained nothing from

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that. No monetary value. It's not enhancing the experience on

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Android because it wasn't obviously native. Whereas,

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compare that to Apple Podcasts on iOS. IOS is a

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closed system. You can get iOS only on Apple

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Devices. But they make all of these apps

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that make the whole device experience better.

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And the more Apple products you have, the better the experience gets

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because all your Apple products talk nicely to each other, synchronize,

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hand off things to each other, all of this stuff. So when Apple adds

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a feature, it increases the value of the

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experience of their products. Google Podcasts did not

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increase the value of Android. And you look then at

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YouTube, well, where Google stands to benefit

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from YouTube and podcasts on YouTube

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is their own advertising. So the

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unfortunate thing is, I think, at least the way that they currently

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have this built out, they have to make it

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monetized. They have to enable advertising in

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some way around the experience, inside your content like they do with

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YouTube videos sometimes. That's what they have to do

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because they put themselves in this corner where instead

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of simply being an app that lets you

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download episodes from the RSS feed like an actual podcast app,

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they are rehosting the media. They're not

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only rehosting the MP Threes, the audio files, they

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are also converting those audio files

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into video to host fake

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video on their own platform. And the

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ratio of the size of video to audio is

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huge. Video bandwidth is so much more intensive.

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It takes so much more processing power to convert that. It takes

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so much more storage space. It's costing Google

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money to have brought podcasts to Google

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this way on YouTube, they have to make that

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money back or they are going to kill it again.

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Google Podcasts didn't cost them anything or barely anything. I mean,

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it cost them the people, the time to create the product. But Right.

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That could be one person or a couple of people. For a

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while, it was. And for a while, look at how well it

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did. Even though it wasn't Yeah. The pre installed

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icon on the app. Even though it had all of these uphill

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hurdles and all of that, look at how well it did anyway.

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And it was so simple and it just worked. YouTube

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is different. Yeah. It has to be monetized for them. It has to pay

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these bills that they've shot themselves in the foot, put themselves in a corner, and

256
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shot themselves with this. They have to bite the bullet. Lots of

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violent analogies here. They have

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made this more difficult for themselves because now it's costing

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them. Now they have to make money from our content that we

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allow them to distribute on YouTube podcasts.

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I'll wipe my mouth out later for that. So

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that makes me worried about the experience. But

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if they backtracked and turned

264
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it into something more like an actual podcast

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app, And they let people follow RSS

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feeds instead of YouTube channels. And they let people just get

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an audio focused experience,

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which I'm so disappointed in them. It's the biggest disappointment

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ever in podcasting to me, and it's the biggest flop, I think,

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right now at least. They could make it so much better. But right now, it's

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the biggest flop because they took the laziest,

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worst approach they could have done. And I I feel like

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with my scrappy development skills, I could have made something better

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in the amount of time that they've been hyping this up.

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And Well, the other thing that

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makes me confused is Rob at

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Lipson reached out and said, hey. What happens when

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you click on a Google link now? Is it going to redirect

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to a YouTube music link? And you can go find

280
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your show in YouTube music and share it. So there is a link that will

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direct people to your show in YouTube music.

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And they were like, well, right now, nothing. Like, we're not doing

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anything. And then Rob said even though it was after April 1st, you could still

284
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I think he said you were able to play it. So even though they said

285
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it was shut down, you could still play it, but I don't think it's gonna

286
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play it. On and hold Google Podcast link. Yeah. So, like, if

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you didn't take it off your website, like, what would happen to it?

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And, you know, the smart thing, if you want to really build

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your new app, you would just have it redirect where people could click on it

290
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and say, oh, I wanna follow this show Yes. In the new app. And

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instead, they they tried to train people on how

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to export an OPML file and import it into YouTube, and I was

293
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like, yeah, not the easiest path there where they could

294
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have just put in some sort of redirect, said the guy, of course, that doesn't

295
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do any programming, but I'm like, it sure seemed like an easy thing to do.

296
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They make both of these apps. They could have made a button that was

297
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just transferred to YouTube music, and and they could have just transferred

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that straight over. None of this download your OPML and then re

299
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upload it kinda thing, which is difficult enough to do on a mobile

300
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device. But I just checked my own link in the

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US when I visit my link that I have. I I've

302
00:19:11,855 --> 00:19:15,075
removed the icon from my site, but when I visit my secret link,

303
00:19:15,615 --> 00:19:19,130
then it takes me to a page that says Google Podcasts is no longer

304
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available. Listen to podcasts and build your library in the YouTube Music

305
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app. And there's a button to explore YouTube Music.

306
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Nothing about where to get this podcast

307
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from, let alone even the name of the podcast someone

308
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just visited. In fact, the URL, yeah, it's now just podcast.google.com.

309
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It just redirects my old Google podcast link now just redirects

310
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to podcast.google.com with that page. That's disappointing.

311
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Yeah. So in the keeping score here, what if

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YouTube was big? That's kind of like, it sure doesn't look

313
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like they're they didn't think this through. Because the

314
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hardest thing I always tell people, if you start a new show

315
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so let's say I did a show about Star Trek, and I was just tired

316
00:20:05,985 --> 00:20:09,585
of talking about Star Trek, and I decided I'm gonna do a show about Star

317
00:20:09,585 --> 00:20:13,400
Wars. The stupidest thing you could do is not let your audience know,

318
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hey, if you like, you know, Star Trek, I'm gonna start a new show on

319
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Star Wars, and this one will stop because your audience might follow you.

320
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And then if if you actually took the first show away, you could redirect

321
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it to the new show. And granted, there are some people like, I hate Star

322
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Wars. I don't want this. Well, fine. But at least you made it for

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00:20:32,289 --> 00:20:35,885
your your listeners. They could either stay or go. And

324
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this just seems like why are you making it so hard? And

325
00:20:39,545 --> 00:20:43,330
I I also think look, we're we're nerds. Most of us

326
00:20:43,330 --> 00:20:46,690
that listen to the show are nerds. So we can export an OPML and import.

327
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It's no big deal. But I don't think the general public that went over their

328
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heads. And I I know in support, I've had people like, hey,

329
00:20:54,155 --> 00:20:57,995
what happened to Google Podcasts? Because they're not nerds. They're not

330
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running in this circle, and I've been pointing to, like, here's, you know, Podcast

331
00:21:01,580 --> 00:21:05,340
Goori, here's Padurama, here's Podcast Addict, you know, and then when you start

332
00:21:05,340 --> 00:21:09,165
mentioning feeds, they're like, what what is this weird voodoo you are speaking

333
00:21:09,165 --> 00:21:12,925
of? So they, again, they kinda missed a boat. So

334
00:21:12,925 --> 00:21:15,985
it'd be great. I would love to see it again soar, but

335
00:21:16,570 --> 00:21:20,330
the you know, your first impression is is not a great

336
00:21:20,330 --> 00:21:23,289
one right now. As when I heard that, I was like, oh, are you kidding

337
00:21:23,289 --> 00:21:27,025
me? They're not doing they're just setting you to a dead end here with no

338
00:21:27,025 --> 00:21:30,865
real links to to get you going. Still have a chance to redeem

339
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themselves. They could certainly change

340
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that. They could because there are already apps out

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there that all you have to do is there's a certain URL pattern that

342
00:21:41,610 --> 00:21:45,385
you follow plus the RSS feed, and

343
00:21:45,385 --> 00:21:49,165
it will then let you subscribe to that or follow that feed

344
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in that app without that podcast actually being

345
00:21:52,769 --> 00:21:56,049
inside that app. You can do that with Overcast. You can do that with Apple

346
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Podcasts, with many podcast apps out there, that

347
00:21:59,674 --> 00:22:03,515
simple formula, Google Podcasts already has

348
00:22:03,515 --> 00:22:07,115
those RSS feed URLs. They could have

349
00:22:07,115 --> 00:22:10,559
very simply done that kind of thing or, like, googlepodcast.com.

350
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Well, that's not the actual link, but that dot com slash

351
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my feed URL now redirects to youtube

352
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music.com/subscribe to podcast

353
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question mark feed equals and then the feed. Whatever. They could have done

354
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that kind of thing to make it a seamless transition. That kind of

355
00:22:30,770 --> 00:22:33,830
thing really bugs me when people don't think about

356
00:22:34,554 --> 00:22:38,154
all of the links that are out there. I'm the type, when I

357
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bio domain, if I speak a domain, I

358
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have it for life. Because I think, you know, on my

359
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deathbed, someone out there is gonna think,

360
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I heard this URL from Daniel once. I'm gonna go visit that. I want

361
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that URL to still work. Right. It's funny because we started off with this,

362
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like, wouldn't it be great if this turned into a big thing? And the more

363
00:23:00,330 --> 00:23:03,390
we talk about this, I'm just sitting here thinking, yeah, it's not.

364
00:23:04,090 --> 00:23:07,465
I I hope they prove me wrong. I know the

365
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response we heard was, you know, later this year, they

366
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will officially, I guess, everywhere. I think some of this is just in the

367
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US. But eventually, it will, like, just be gone. They're just gonna, you know,

368
00:23:18,970 --> 00:23:22,649
obliterate obliterate? I just made up a new word. They're just gonna wipe it off

369
00:23:22,649 --> 00:23:26,345
the planet, and maybe that's when they put in a redirect. And if

370
00:23:26,345 --> 00:23:29,465
they do that, then again, it's like, oh, great. Now that we've all figured out

371
00:23:29,465 --> 00:23:33,165
other apps to use, you're gonna make it easy to move to

372
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the new one. So, again, I could be wrong. Maybe they'll do

373
00:23:36,890 --> 00:23:40,650
something, but I'd But I do wanna take this back

374
00:23:40,650 --> 00:23:44,264
to a positive side. Okay. If this becomes a big

375
00:23:44,264 --> 00:23:47,625
thing and if they do this right, if they if they fix it

376
00:23:47,625 --> 00:23:51,304
really, what I think this could be great is that here are

377
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people on YouTube already consuming content,

378
00:23:55,210 --> 00:23:58,730
mostly video content. Yes. There's plenty of fake video out there that's not

379
00:23:58,730 --> 00:24:02,505
also a podcast. But regardless, people are on

380
00:24:02,505 --> 00:24:06,265
there to consume content that they listen

381
00:24:06,265 --> 00:24:09,725
to or watch. It would be wonderful

382
00:24:10,360 --> 00:24:13,720
to have podcasts, actual podcasts, right alongside

383
00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:16,539
that and get recommended in the same algorithms.

384
00:24:17,399 --> 00:24:21,225
But, sorry, I have to go back to this, YouTube has to think about it

385
00:24:21,225 --> 00:24:24,905
differently. Like, you think about the YouTube algorithm where you

386
00:24:24,905 --> 00:24:28,690
watch a video and then 20 minutes later, you've

387
00:24:28,690 --> 00:24:32,210
learned how to build a nuclear bomb. Because you've just gone down this rabbit hole

388
00:24:32,210 --> 00:24:35,745
of video after video. And I'm sorry, not 20 minutes chapters, 20

389
00:24:35,745 --> 00:24:39,425
hours later because you can get down that rabbit hole

390
00:24:39,425 --> 00:24:42,245
where YouTube just recommends video chapters video after video

391
00:24:43,179 --> 00:24:46,860
related to that and also using that whole algorithms as as it starts to learn

392
00:24:46,860 --> 00:24:50,700
what you're interested in. That same kind of thing could happen with podcast

393
00:24:50,700 --> 00:24:54,285
too, but they need to do it in a way that

394
00:24:54,285 --> 00:24:57,985
actually gives audio podcasts equal

395
00:24:58,285 --> 00:25:00,785
position and equal interest

396
00:25:02,279 --> 00:25:06,120
to an audience who's looking for video. And that's the

397
00:25:06,120 --> 00:25:08,519
thing that I've seen in the past and one of the reasons why I'm so

398
00:25:08,519 --> 00:25:11,785
against fake video on YouTube is that I've seen this kind of thing

399
00:25:11,925 --> 00:25:14,585
where managing a fake video channel before

400
00:25:15,445 --> 00:25:19,065
where the video got huge view counts

401
00:25:19,890 --> 00:25:23,730
and then a massive drop off, 95% or so

402
00:25:23,730 --> 00:25:27,410
within the first 90 seconds. I think that's what it was. And almost no one

403
00:25:27,410 --> 00:25:31,174
was listening after 5 minutes. And we're talking from

404
00:25:31,635 --> 00:25:35,174
20,000, 30,000 views down to

405
00:25:35,635 --> 00:25:38,680
a handful. And that's because

406
00:25:39,300 --> 00:25:42,680
that video was probably algorithmically

407
00:25:43,060 --> 00:25:46,845
recommended or was searched for, and it showed up as

408
00:25:46,845 --> 00:25:50,684
relevant, but then people quickly abandoned it as soon as they figured out

409
00:25:50,684 --> 00:25:54,525
what it was. If you can set people's expectation ahead of

410
00:25:54,525 --> 00:25:57,830
time before they press on it, then

411
00:25:58,130 --> 00:26:01,730
they're more likely to stick around. I've done split

412
00:26:01,730 --> 00:26:05,225
tests with this on websites and stuff and I've seen studies on this as

413
00:26:05,225 --> 00:26:09,005
well. Set those expectations. So if in that recommended

414
00:26:09,145 --> 00:26:12,490
list, maybe there's a thing where it's like recommended

415
00:26:12,549 --> 00:26:15,929
video and then there's another section that's recommended audio,

416
00:26:16,309 --> 00:26:20,065
something like that. And even for myself, I

417
00:26:20,065 --> 00:26:23,825
think I would be more likely to click and listen to the

418
00:26:23,825 --> 00:26:27,585
video or I'm sorry. Like,

419
00:26:27,585 --> 00:26:31,030
the Freudian slip there. I would be more likely to

420
00:26:31,030 --> 00:26:33,690
listen to the audio on YouTube

421
00:26:34,710 --> 00:26:38,554
if I knew it was only audio. But right now,

422
00:26:38,554 --> 00:26:41,135
when I see certain videos on YouTube,

423
00:26:42,075 --> 00:26:45,690
that there are certain video games that I play and I'm interested in and such.

424
00:26:45,850 --> 00:26:49,529
And I'll go to their YouTube channel and they're cover they're covering, like, the latest

425
00:26:49,529 --> 00:26:53,289
updates or something like that. And I want to see

426
00:26:53,289 --> 00:26:56,755
what they're talking about, and I keep expecting to see

427
00:26:56,755 --> 00:27:00,434
it because it's a video, and it is a true video. There's something

428
00:27:00,434 --> 00:27:04,215
going on on the screen. But what frustrates me so many times

429
00:27:04,690 --> 00:27:08,309
is the video is pointless. It's just video of them playing the game

430
00:27:08,850 --> 00:27:12,585
while they talk over that video. So that kind

431
00:27:12,585 --> 00:27:16,265
of experience could be so much better as only

432
00:27:16,265 --> 00:27:19,840
audio and if they could let me know ahead of

433
00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:23,680
time this is an audio, then I would be more likely

434
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:27,184
to listen through it because I'm not then watching it getting

435
00:27:27,184 --> 00:27:30,865
frustrated with every second, waiting to see something that's

436
00:27:30,865 --> 00:27:34,245
actually relevant to what they're talking about and never getting it.

437
00:27:34,500 --> 00:27:38,100
But if I know this is only a listening experience, then I can press

438
00:27:38,100 --> 00:27:41,780
play, switch tabs, switch apps, whatever, and

439
00:27:41,780 --> 00:27:45,615
listen while I'm then doing everything else that I would do with the

440
00:27:45,615 --> 00:27:49,075
podcast. Yeah. Elsie just made this point on the feed

441
00:27:49,535 --> 00:27:52,929
that she's noticing a trend where people are having AI

442
00:27:52,929 --> 00:27:56,770
generate titles, and it sounds great. And it's this huge title

443
00:27:56,770 --> 00:28:00,195
that, you know, you can do this in a $1,000,000 in 5 seconds

444
00:28:00,755 --> 00:28:03,975
She goes, and the problem is it mentions something very

445
00:28:04,514 --> 00:28:08,320
specific. Like like, let's say your video game is, like, you

446
00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:11,840
know, the 5 steps to solve level 3, and you're

447
00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:15,125
like, perfect. Great. And then you go and you watch,

448
00:28:15,365 --> 00:28:19,205
and they gave you something very specific, and they never talk about that.

449
00:28:19,205 --> 00:28:22,185
They That is, you know, how to lose your audience.

450
00:28:22,565 --> 00:28:26,190
Yeah. And that's where I think

451
00:28:26,190 --> 00:28:30,029
you'll see a spike. Right? You're gonna hit the algorithm because that title

452
00:28:30,029 --> 00:28:33,815
is amazing, and you got a great thumbnail. And then people

453
00:28:33,815 --> 00:28:37,495
see it, and welcome to American Idol. You had your 5 minutes of

454
00:28:37,495 --> 00:28:41,270
fame, and now you're gone. And, sure, you might gleam

455
00:28:41,330 --> 00:28:44,530
a few people because at least you're playing the game they like, but they're not

456
00:28:44,530 --> 00:28:48,355
gonna stick around. And I would much rather as much as

457
00:28:48,355 --> 00:28:51,735
I would love to have 10,000 downloads, but, you know,

458
00:28:52,915 --> 00:28:56,560
the the people that grow organically, it is slower.

459
00:28:56,560 --> 00:29:00,320
It's slower than I think anything. You know, growing an email list is

460
00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:03,780
probably chapters. Growing a blog is probably chapters. But growing an e

461
00:29:04,090 --> 00:29:07,905
podcast, it's it's a you know, we always say it's a marathon, not a

462
00:29:07,905 --> 00:29:11,745
sprint, and that's not just a fun bumper sticker. That's the truth. And

463
00:29:11,745 --> 00:29:15,050
so, you know, we've gotta be truthful with our titles,

464
00:29:15,670 --> 00:29:19,430
and, you know, that's again where algorithms, on one hand, yay,

465
00:29:19,430 --> 00:29:22,895
we've solved the discoverability problem, he said in quotation

466
00:29:22,895 --> 00:29:26,575
marks. But on the other hand, well, I hope you liked your 10 minutes of

467
00:29:26,575 --> 00:29:30,320
fame. You know, you you you rode the wave, but now you gotta swim

468
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:33,380
back out in the ocean and try to catch another one. Book on a Kindle?

469
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:37,760
No. It's not a great experience. I've tried it multiple times where you'll get

470
00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:40,715
it. Because it's a cool thing that you actually get an email. If you have

471
00:29:40,715 --> 00:29:44,555
a Kindle, you know, you get an email address that you can get

472
00:29:44,555 --> 00:29:48,350
a, you know, some sort of PDF, and you just attach it and

473
00:29:48,350 --> 00:29:50,910
send it to that email, and it will show up on your Kindle. And I

474
00:29:50,910 --> 00:29:54,610
was like, this is amazing. But some of the features in the Kindle,

475
00:29:54,670 --> 00:29:58,055
like making the font bigger or some other things, it just

476
00:29:58,055 --> 00:30:01,895
didn't quite because it wasn't exactly made for a Kindle.

477
00:30:01,895 --> 00:30:05,160
It's you're kind of you need a square peg a little bit into that that

478
00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:07,900
hole. So So so what is an ebook?

479
00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:12,600
That aside, what I meant was, like, an actual ebook that you've

480
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:16,285
purchased from Amazon that was then delivered automatically through

481
00:30:16,285 --> 00:30:20,045
Kindle. Perfect. I love that because I do it all the time. I actually have

482
00:30:20,045 --> 00:30:23,700
Kindle Unlimited, so I can read as many books as I want. So one of

483
00:30:23,700 --> 00:30:27,460
the things I love about doing that, and I've got a Kindle, and I really

484
00:30:27,460 --> 00:30:31,095
prefer to read something on it. For one thing, it's avoids the distractions.

485
00:30:31,235 --> 00:30:34,934
But one of the features I really love, the community

486
00:30:35,235 --> 00:30:38,770
highlights. Yes. That when you're reading a book that's from

487
00:30:38,770 --> 00:30:42,450
Amazon, not something you've uploaded manually, you get to

488
00:30:42,450 --> 00:30:45,350
see things that other people have found interesting.

489
00:30:46,785 --> 00:30:50,545
And what goes through your mind when you see that? When you're reading along, and

490
00:30:50,545 --> 00:30:53,985
then you see that little underline, and you see this many thousands of people

491
00:30:53,985 --> 00:30:57,390
highlighted this. What goes through your mind today? Oh, I if especially if I see

492
00:30:57,390 --> 00:31:01,070
it at the bottom of the page, I'm like, oh, something good is coming up.

493
00:31:01,070 --> 00:31:04,765
And then I also go, you know what? While I'm here, I'm gonna

494
00:31:04,765 --> 00:31:07,825
highlight that too. That is good stuff. Me too.

495
00:31:08,365 --> 00:31:12,145
What if Google put that into podcasts

496
00:31:12,365 --> 00:31:15,730
on YouTube where they could pull the excerpts

497
00:31:15,950 --> 00:31:19,310
out and recommend excerpts of

498
00:31:19,310 --> 00:31:22,934
that along with all of the other videos. So one of these

499
00:31:22,934 --> 00:31:26,635
problems with podcasting is that podcasts are long form audio

500
00:31:26,695 --> 00:31:30,235
mostly. There are plenty of Yep. True video podcasts out there.

501
00:31:30,855 --> 00:31:34,549
But it's long form audio, and that is difficult to go viral.

502
00:31:34,610 --> 00:31:38,289
Videos on YouTube are usually chapters. But also, if they're

503
00:31:38,289 --> 00:31:41,955
true video, they're a lot more engaging. They're engaging so

504
00:31:41,955 --> 00:31:45,794
much more of your senses. You can understand people better also when you're watching

505
00:31:45,794 --> 00:31:49,554
them instead of only listening to them. Yeah. There are all of these other problems

506
00:31:49,554 --> 00:31:53,279
about video, like it's not portable, bandwidth issues, all of that. That aside,

507
00:31:54,059 --> 00:31:57,039
if you're watching a really interesting video,

508
00:31:57,899 --> 00:32:01,585
YouTube could then recommend in their

509
00:32:01,585 --> 00:32:05,285
algorithm an excerpt from an audio podcast.

510
00:32:06,225 --> 00:32:09,990
And when you click on it, it jumps you straight to that section of

511
00:32:09,990 --> 00:32:13,690
the audio, kind of like this many 1000 people

512
00:32:14,150 --> 00:32:17,905
found this also interesting or that you

513
00:32:17,905 --> 00:32:21,745
might also like, but instead of recommending an entire episode that

514
00:32:21,745 --> 00:32:25,505
starts off with, hey, everybody. How are you doing? It's really good to hear you.

515
00:32:25,505 --> 00:32:29,140
Hey. Don't forget to rate and review the podcast. This week, we've got coming

516
00:32:29,300 --> 00:32:32,580
you know, all of that stuff that sometimes podcasters waste a lot of time up

517
00:32:32,580 --> 00:32:36,375
front. What if they could just jump to that section? And

518
00:32:36,375 --> 00:32:39,755
then in the app, while they're listening to that section,

519
00:32:39,895 --> 00:32:43,655
then YouTube is saying, click here to listen to the full

520
00:32:43,655 --> 00:32:47,310
episode. Just like there's, bible.com as a

521
00:32:47,310 --> 00:32:51,070
Bible website Yeah. Where you can search an individual verse, but then there's the

522
00:32:51,070 --> 00:32:54,565
link right there that lets you view that whole verse in context.

523
00:32:54,725 --> 00:32:58,424
Christians, you need to click that every time you look up an individual verse.

524
00:32:58,804 --> 00:33:02,424
But that kind of thing could be brought to YouTube also

525
00:33:02,644 --> 00:33:05,690
so that they are recommending the specific

526
00:33:06,150 --> 00:33:09,750
content that's relevant to what someone is watching. And they're also

527
00:33:09,750 --> 00:33:13,210
then doing that carryover, helping discovery,

528
00:33:13,510 --> 00:33:16,955
actually, because they're making that transition that you are

529
00:33:16,955 --> 00:33:20,635
watching this thing. Here is a short

530
00:33:20,635 --> 00:33:24,260
audio snippet you might also like that's about the

531
00:33:24,260 --> 00:33:27,860
same thing. Thousands of other people liked this

532
00:33:27,860 --> 00:33:30,200
too. Click here to listen.

533
00:33:32,794 --> 00:33:36,554
That would be great. It'll be interesting to, to see.

534
00:33:36,554 --> 00:33:40,255
I know they are doing YouTube is doing some

535
00:33:40,900 --> 00:33:44,500
webinars. I know they're doing one with JSON. So by the time you hear

536
00:33:44,500 --> 00:33:48,340
this, it's already happened, but I know they're they're doing some to kinda get the

537
00:33:48,340 --> 00:33:51,725
word out. So it'd be interesting to see if they

538
00:33:51,725 --> 00:33:55,405
change anything. Because right now, the way it's set up, you're just doing

539
00:33:55,405 --> 00:33:59,245
YouTube with audio. You can't, you know, replace

540
00:33:59,245 --> 00:34:02,860
a file. It's very much it's just YouTube, except it's, you

541
00:34:02,860 --> 00:34:06,540
know, a static image instead of a an actual video. So it'd be

542
00:34:06,540 --> 00:34:10,255
interesting to see if they bend the rules at all. I'm

543
00:34:10,255 --> 00:34:13,715
not optimistic, but they could surprise me. You never know.

544
00:34:14,574 --> 00:34:18,335
Our friend and founder of Podfest Multimedia Expo, Chris

545
00:34:18,335 --> 00:34:22,080
Kremitzos, wrote a great book, Start Ugly, a

546
00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:25,920
timeless tale about innovation and change. And I

547
00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:29,375
will say, YouTube podcasts have started

548
00:34:29,675 --> 00:34:33,215
very ugly. But this is a good but.

549
00:34:33,915 --> 00:34:37,730
They have a lot of potential and I want them

550
00:34:37,730 --> 00:34:40,869
to succeed with this. I want them

551
00:34:41,489 --> 00:34:44,710
to make this a more integrated experience, a crossover

552
00:34:45,010 --> 00:34:48,515
experience to actually crossover people from

553
00:34:48,515 --> 00:34:52,195
watching to listening. YouTube, I think, is

554
00:34:52,195 --> 00:34:55,920
uniquely positioned to do that because YouTube

555
00:34:55,980 --> 00:34:59,740
is the only place people are going or it's the most

556
00:34:59,740 --> 00:35:03,395
popular place people are going to stream free

557
00:35:03,775 --> 00:35:07,615
video content. I watch it every day on my TV. I go

558
00:35:07,615 --> 00:35:10,595
to lunch, and I have a YouTube button on my remote.

559
00:35:11,310 --> 00:35:15,070
So and I think more and more people are doing that, that it's it's

560
00:35:15,070 --> 00:35:18,895
now because the beauty of it is with YouTube

561
00:35:18,895 --> 00:35:22,734
and the algorithm, I have my subscriptions. And instead of

562
00:35:22,734 --> 00:35:26,529
I could surf on Netflix trying to find something good, or I could click

563
00:35:26,529 --> 00:35:29,650
the YouTube button and go right to my subscriptions and go, oh, look. Tom Buck

564
00:35:29,650 --> 00:35:33,385
has a new video out. Click. You know? So you it's it's similar

565
00:35:33,385 --> 00:35:37,225
to, like, Netflix, but it just seems like you have to search so far in

566
00:35:37,225 --> 00:35:40,765
Netflix to find something good. And you're like, oh, here's a new movie

567
00:35:40,825 --> 00:35:44,619
featuring this actor that I like from what? I didn't know this.

568
00:35:44,619 --> 00:35:48,059
1981. Like, oh, wait a minute. That's that's that's not

569
00:35:48,059 --> 00:35:51,734
good. So Where it'll be fun to watch. Where

570
00:35:51,734 --> 00:35:55,335
all the other podcast apps are great with the

571
00:35:55,335 --> 00:35:59,174
podcast consumption experience. They're not good at discovery, cross

572
00:35:59,174 --> 00:36:02,980
promotion, recommendation, all of that. I know there's some work being done in some

573
00:36:02,980 --> 00:36:06,740
of those apps to improve that. YouTube, not great

574
00:36:06,740 --> 00:36:10,340
on the audio podcast consumption experience. Still early.

575
00:36:10,340 --> 00:36:14,175
Yes. Fantastic on the algorithm

576
00:36:14,315 --> 00:36:17,995
side. So if they could I I think

577
00:36:17,995 --> 00:36:21,640
it's easier to improve the podcast ex consumption

578
00:36:22,020 --> 00:36:25,860
experience than it is to improve the algorithm. This thing

579
00:36:25,860 --> 00:36:28,895
that I described, like transitioning people from video to audio,

580
00:36:29,275 --> 00:36:32,955
that's probably just a few simple tweaks in their

581
00:36:32,955 --> 00:36:36,319
algorithm, and they can do that. Well, they said in their

582
00:36:36,319 --> 00:36:39,859
presentation of podcast movement evolutions where the algorithm

583
00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:43,460
will often send you stuff from other people.

584
00:36:44,145 --> 00:36:47,825
And they said, maybe if you're flagged as a podcast, maybe

585
00:36:47,825 --> 00:36:51,285
it will purposely send you to the next episode.

586
00:36:51,710 --> 00:36:53,870
And I'm, like, well, that would be great. I heard that. And you know what

587
00:36:53,870 --> 00:36:57,710
I thought? Oh, you mean, like a podcast

588
00:36:57,710 --> 00:37:00,805
app does? It takes you to the next episode?

589
00:37:02,465 --> 00:37:05,825
Yeah. But I was also, like, wait a minute. In

590
00:37:05,825 --> 00:37:09,420
YouTube, on my videos, I say, show them the best

591
00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:13,400
video that you feel is the best from my channel. And I'm

592
00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:17,045
like, wait. You just said you send them to other people. And, really, I think

593
00:37:17,045 --> 00:37:20,645
what he's talking about is that right channel. The the basically, the

594
00:37:20,645 --> 00:37:23,925
distraction channel. So, sure, at the end of the video, they'll send you one of

595
00:37:23,925 --> 00:37:27,619
yours. But in the meantime, here's 7 other ones that you might like, and

596
00:37:27,619 --> 00:37:31,300
you're probably gonna click on those before, you know, the actual video

597
00:37:31,300 --> 00:37:34,335
is over. So only time will tell.

598
00:37:35,195 --> 00:37:38,975
So, Daniel, did we get any boostograms? We did.

599
00:37:39,115 --> 00:37:42,630
25100 sats from Dwev, and I learned that is the correct

600
00:37:42,630 --> 00:37:46,470
pronunciation. He said, I agree with all your points about Cast O Matic, Daniel.

601
00:37:46,470 --> 00:37:50,055
It is my current primary player, but it's my favorite. The

602
00:37:50,055 --> 00:37:53,495
UX, that's user experience, around setting up value for

603
00:37:53,495 --> 00:37:56,935
value is so easy and having the boost button right there means I'm

604
00:37:56,935 --> 00:38:00,619
boosting much more. I know. It's so tempting to press that button.

605
00:38:01,079 --> 00:38:04,440
Also, the SAT slash fiat reference works in multiple

606
00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:08,175
currencies, which is also awesome. That's great to know. I'd like to be able

607
00:38:08,175 --> 00:38:12,015
to manually refresh a feed slash episode to get updated show notes or

608
00:38:12,015 --> 00:38:15,770
super chapters, etcetera. Thank you so much, Dwev, for that

609
00:38:15,770 --> 00:38:19,530
comment as well as the 25100 stats boost. Yeah. That's awesome. I

610
00:38:19,530 --> 00:38:23,375
do believe if you swipe down, if you're looking in the

611
00:38:23,375 --> 00:38:27,055
app, I think if you just pull down, it does do something where some

612
00:38:27,055 --> 00:38:30,900
little, you know, circle thing spins around. So it looks like

613
00:38:30,900 --> 00:38:34,740
it's refreshing. I believe the the fun part with any

614
00:38:34,740 --> 00:38:38,335
kind of podcast is especially I know last week.

615
00:38:38,335 --> 00:38:41,935
Thanks, Dave. I put out our episode, and I

616
00:38:41,935 --> 00:38:45,694
had we had some issues with that episode. And at one point, I

617
00:38:45,694 --> 00:38:49,450
have a live chat on my website, and I forgot to turn it off.

618
00:38:49,510 --> 00:38:53,190
And so if you heard this bell ringing about 12 minutes and 40 seconds

619
00:38:53,190 --> 00:38:56,785
in, that was Dave's fault. And so that went out, and

620
00:38:56,785 --> 00:38:58,705
somebody said, hey. Do you know you have this weird sound in it? And it

621
00:38:58,705 --> 00:39:02,385
was like, I easily fixed it and put it back out. But if you downloaded

622
00:39:02,385 --> 00:39:06,120
the first one, it's not going to redownload. I guess I could have you

623
00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:08,840
know, there are ways you can do this. You can create a new episode and

624
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:12,345
say repost and but if you just fix the file, that

625
00:39:12,345 --> 00:39:15,865
fix everything from this point forward. But everybody else got the

626
00:39:15,865 --> 00:39:19,609
collector's edition, so congratulations on that. You know, a side note, I've put

627
00:39:19,609 --> 00:39:23,450
forward a proposal that Adam Curry actually liked, but no one's

628
00:39:23,450 --> 00:39:26,589
discussed it. It was maybe 2 years ago I put forward this proposal

629
00:39:26,995 --> 00:39:30,835
that basically you could have a tag to say this

630
00:39:30,835 --> 00:39:34,675
replaces this other episode. And so if you ever put out

631
00:39:34,675 --> 00:39:38,240
an episode with that replaces tag on it

632
00:39:38,540 --> 00:39:42,060
then it would automatically delete the

633
00:39:42,060 --> 00:39:45,680
previous episode or maybe it prompts the user to say hey there's a new version

634
00:39:45,715 --> 00:39:49,475
of this. Would you rather download or redownload this new version or listen

635
00:39:49,475 --> 00:39:53,060
to this new version or do you wanna pick up from this current time but

636
00:39:53,060 --> 00:39:56,740
on this other file? That kind of thing. That would be neat to see,

637
00:39:56,740 --> 00:40:00,505
but that's that's a very niche feature that we

638
00:40:00,505 --> 00:40:03,805
shouldn't need. Yeah. We shouldn't need, but we do. That's the problem.

639
00:40:04,185 --> 00:40:07,730
So, yeah, I like that idea. Excellent. So, alright.

640
00:40:07,730 --> 00:40:11,570
Well, tell us what you think. Are you optimistic about YouTube music, or

641
00:40:11,570 --> 00:40:15,090
are you a person that's like, I don't know.

642
00:40:15,330 --> 00:40:19,095
Send us a boost and let us know. And, of course, we'll be reading those

643
00:40:19,234 --> 00:40:23,075
on the next episode of the future of podcasting. Thanks so much for listening.

644
00:40:23,075 --> 00:40:26,550
That's gonna do it for this episode. Keep boosting and keep

645
00:40:26,550 --> 00:40:27,050
podcasting.